Dia Bondi 00:03
You might ask for more here a couple more. They're asked for more. They're asked for more. They're asked for more. They're asked for more there. And then we find the one that says yes, and you've asked for more and you got it. But we have to deal with the moment and keep our eyes on the horizon at the same time. And the moments where the people go into that's a weird goal, or Who do you think you are? Those are just speed bumps. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Dia Bondi show I'm Dia Bondi longtime leadership communications coach and catalyst. Yes, I said catalyst and creator project asked like an auctioneer aimed at helping a million women ask for more and get it. And we're here in this podcast to help you resource your dreams. Yes, ask for more and get it and try and have a blast while you're doing it. Because it's easy to forget that part. And today, as every day I am joined by my on air producer, baby Arthur. Hi, baby. Hey, Dia,
Arthur 01:13
how are you? Yeah, to have a blast doing it part. That's very important.
Dia Bondi 01:18
That's friggin hard. That can be really hard. You know, I love dealing in high stakes in those high stakes moments, you know, those, like when when something's gotta happen, you know, we want it to happen. But it is, and it's easy to get super serious. And we should be super serious. But it's also important we find moments and ways for us to have a blast here and there. Yes, definitely. I mean, I'm in that right now, for those of you who may or may not know I have a book proposal out, swirling around in the world, called Ask like an auctioneer. Interestingly, the first time we ever, not the first time, like maybe the fourth time, I was in front of an audience talking about ask, you know, like keynote or workshop, or I don't know what it was, I got a lot of like, Hey, where's her book where I saw in the chat? Where's the book? Where can I buy the book, and I was like, we don't have a book. But that may be changing soon. And, you know, right now, I can feel myself noticing that like, I This feels high stakes. For me, it's something I really want to do in the world is to write and publish a book asked like an auctioneer to make it easier for women to get their hands on this on this content. And, you know, sort of as an artifact for all this thinking and work that we're creating in the world. And it's easy for me to not have a blast while I'm doing it, because it's hard.
Arthur 02:44
Sure. And, you know, I see that book jacket, I see it sitting in the window, the bookstores I walked
Dia Bondi 02:50
by, I just that's a beautiful thing to say because while I do also and it feels like it's going to happen, you know, there's like two different experiences of trying to make something happen in the world to try to resource our dreams one is in folks will hear me In fact, in today's episode, you're gonna hear me talk about this a little bit more, we'll set it up in just a second. But you know, our eyes on the horizon where we're looking at our goals, we're falling in love with our goals. And then we have our eyes right at the very next step, which can feel sometimes like a struggle can feel, you know, hard. And I'm even today and before we started recording this podcast, I'm sharing a little bit with Arthur that I'm feeling down and have my eyes like on the very next step, because that's what needs you know, that's what needs attention this week. And that very next step feels like a slog, it feels like you know, that very next step is full of things that are not, you know, good enough or big enough or bright enough or have the right social currency or aren't, you know, fill in the blank. And I can feel that, you know, we're recording this on a Friday, I can feel that this weekend, I got to spend time a little bit with my eyes on the horizon and remind myself, you know why I'm doing the thing that is requiring this very next step so that the very next step just feels like a speed bump in the path to a goal not like a defining moment in the journey and try to find a little bit a try to have a little bit of a blast actually celebrate like, wow, I'm actually working on this next step, which is 25 steps from where I started last year.
Arthur 04:30
Yeah, yeah. And there might be 25 more steps. But at least you're you're not at the bottom of the mountain.
Dia Bondi 04:38
Exactly, exactly. Although I have to say, sometimes I enjoy being at the bottom of the mountain because nothing's happened yet. Nothing. You haven't hit any roadblocks yet. Nobody said no, yet. You're just looking at this big beautiful mountain going, would it be freaking awesome when we get there? It's the middle part. That's actually More, the harder part for me. And I wonder for those who are listening, you know, do you love gazing at the big huge mountain and saying like, Oh my gosh, wouldn't it be awesome when we get to the top? Or, you know, is it the middle part where your feet start to hurt and you're you know, you're noticing you may be running out of water. And you know, you need to, there's a temptation to take a break. But there's also a temptation to keep going, because you don't want to slow down too much. And you know, that part where you feel like you've come a long way, but you recognize you still have a long way to go.
Arthur 05:29
Yeah, pushing that boulder up the hill, like Sisyphus.
Dia Bondi 05:32
Exactly. Yeah. So they're,
Arthur 05:35
well, we're gonna do this short intro today, because we have a long thing to tee up. We do. We do. Yeah. And but first, you have a little something to share that you got after a talk that you gave.
Dia Bondi 05:48
Yeah, I got this note on LinkedIn, from a woman who said, Hey, I'm prepping right now to raise $100,000 to support the creation of three new women led short films. Your talk today was so impactful for me. And I love this note from this woman, thank you for sending this to me. Because you know, this is a perfect example of the kinds of ways we are resourcing our dreams, she's got a dream or a project in front of her to build to fund three new women led short films, that takes money, it takes lots of other things as well. And as we think about making the asks that matter to us to help resource these if she can make, you know, she can get to that 100k. And five asks, or three asks, or six asks instead of 10, or 15, or 21. Or that the asks that she that she make get her so much, not just money, but also enthusiasm from the people who are in fact funding these, how much momentum and maybe even help her maybe even give her the thing of having a blast while she's doing it might help her keep her eyes on the horizon as well. So great example of the kinds of projects you know, maybe you listening right now have a project in front of you that needs resourcing, and it could come in the form of money, it could come in the form of, you know, other champions, it could be an endorsement, you need an introduction, you need an access to a network. And in today's episode, we'll talk about the four different things, the pillars of strategic asking you can make to help resource the dreams that you have on deck right now.
Arthur 07:20
Yeah, and if you have a question about important ask in your life, you can give us a call at 341-333-2997. And maybe deal we'll talk about it on the show,
Dia Bondi 07:31
or even just even just let us know what's going on in your in your world right now. Yes,
Arthur 07:38
yeah. And and you know, as always, if you're, if you're into the show and into what we're doing, you can subscribe rate and review it on your favorite podcast app. And that will really help the Deobandi show reach more people.
Dia Bondi 07:50
It is also super critical. And you know, we sleuth through our conversations to identify what we want to talk more about and what might be valuable to you. But you can always call our hotline and and let us know which episodes you like and what you'd like to hear more of, and maybe even who you'd like to hear from. And we'll try to get that on the show for you.
Arthur 08:12
Yeah, and that number again, is 341-333-2997 All right, so today, we're gonna be playing a little fireside chat that you had with a group of folks in property development, like big huge property development. That's
Dia Bondi 08:30
right, I mean, like think buildings, but also think like, huge shipping yards and think, you know, big huge capital projects and larger you know, like big stuff, right? Maybe they're building homes too, but like big stuff, international organization, I was so happy to, to have a fireside chat with their women's er g employee resource group. And we had a nice group of folks maybe about 100 on the call. And it was a mix of folks men and women as well. And it was turned out to be such a great conversation and so well hosted. I really wanted to flip this into a podcast for you it's a fairly long conversation. But it I'm hoping it'll give you a another way of thinking about making the asks that matter to you in your life and to stay connected to what really matters to you as you try to pursue your own goals and dreams.
09:27
Okay, so you talk about the four pillars of strategic asking tell tell us a little bit more about those because it's I mean, it's blowing my mind right the idea of of like thinking of your self as an auctioneer a little bit when you're doing so. So what are what are those pillars of strategic asking?
Dia Bondi 09:44
Well first, when you say Think of yourself as an auctioneer, I just want to name really quickly and then I'll talk about those four pillars. You know, when we ask like an auctioneer when we go to ask in our careers 1000s of conversations I've had with folks of all genders and across all industries, when I asked Okay, before we start putting your story together, what are you asking for, like, and they'll tell me, its resources, its headcount, its, you know, responsibility, its oversight of our project as a set of decisions. It's a promotion, it's whatever it is. And it's a vote, it's whatever it is. And once I understand that, I'll say always, I'll say, I'll say, Great, well, how much of that thing? Are you asking for? How much more money? How much headcount? How much budget, how much, etc, how much investment? How much mentorship? And the answer is, very often will do, what do you think I can get? And for years, I was co conspiring with my, with my clients to say, Great question, you know, what is it that we think we can get, and we would sort of name an amount based on what we thought we could get what we thought we could get a yes to? In auctioneering? We don't do that. In auctioneering, we ask until we ask in order to get a no. And that no actually tells us we've hit the maximum potential of that ask and then we actually sell it for a click beneath it. I mean, think about it. What do we do? When I auctioneer a piece of art? I'm saying, you know, I'm looking for 20 $800. Here, anybody in at 28? I got three people in at 28. I'll say, I'm looking for 3000 or 3800. For 3000. I got two people in it. 3000? I'll say great. How about 3200? Who's in a 30 3200? I've got one person at 3200? And I'll say great. How about 3041 34? Nobody in 34? I'm effectively asking actively, in order to get a no and not until I get that? No, do I know that I've actually maximize the opportunity of that negotiation in that moment. And I may ask for 34 and get nose across the board. And I'm going to settle for 32. But if I started at 28, and I had five, you know, hands in the room, and I said great, somebody that 28 I'm going to pick you you win, I will have less left, you know $400 on the on the on the on deck. So what when I think about you know for you for for women in the room to think about what it means to ask like an auctioneer, what it means is to actually actively seek rejection. And then take a click below that. I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations with women who have said, I want to ask for x in my salary, because I think I can get it. And when I asked Well, what do you think is going to get you rejected, they might anticipate well, another 20% and they go to ask for that 20%. And they end up getting in any way without even getting a rejection. What I want for women is to go 20% more, How about 30%? More? And then actually nupi said no to 30% but they said they said yes to 22? So when we shift our gaze from what do we think we can get to what do we think is too much? We end up taking, taking I'm gonna say taken advantage of or we end up surprising ourselves by ending by ending up with a number that lives not between but that lives somewhere between the yes and the No, the Yes, we thought we'd get and the No, we actually got and inevitably ends up with more now, when we think about when we think about the four pillars of asking these are things I've noticed since I've since I launched project asked like an auctioneer. I've had women come through my workshops in coaching circles who are running for office for their very first time and are asking for more, you know, they're asking for more endorsement. They're asking for contribution. They're asking for their friends and colleagues office space to hold you know meetings about the work that they're doing in their campaigns. Women who are wanting to expand responsibility in their roles, women who are wanting to make asks that, that are about investment in their businesses, they're looking for mentorship, access to networks, a million different assets. And those end up as I notice falling into four categories. And for those of you who might be listening, you might want to think to yourself, like which one of these four might be a fit for my goals right now. The first obviously is money and money can come in the form of investment like I mentioned, you know, consulting rates, salary, bonus rates, etc, anything with $1 sign attached to it. The second category I've noticed that women can make and do make asks when we craft a strategic ask we can use to help reach our goals, his authority. And authority doesn't always come in the package of a promotion, it could be owning a set of decisions over a particular product project, or maybe it is something having to do with you know the way that you run your own your own work, maybe it's about making the asks that help you go from being an in house professional to an out of house professional successfully so that you can be the author of every minute of your day. You know, we were talking about authority here that can help folks reach their goals. And then the third category that I noticed women can make strategic asks and to help them reach their goals. Live in the world of influence and you can think of this in terms of visibility, right. So if if folks on the call are looking at going from a senior manager to director level role, I don't even know if that's a thing in your organization, I don't know what your structure looks like. But let's imagine, and you know, that visibility, people seeing the work that you do is a critical piece of that, where might you look for opportunities to gain that visibility through or gain influence by gaining visibility. So speaking at your all hands, for the first time, being the Communications Manager for a particular project, as you know, submitting to be a speaker at a conference that feels a little too big for your britches, you know, finding those stages that matter getting, building the relationships inside of with other mentors that give you access to networks to grow your influence in a particular space, see that neither of these last two are anything to do with money. But sometimes they're actually more important to the goals that you have in your in your world. And then the fourth one, I noticed women make strategic asks around our balance, and I'm not talking about work life balance, I'm talking about bringing into balance our inner selves with our outer context, the asks that we can make that help bring into alignment, who we are, and the work we're doing every day. Really simple example is. And actually, this came anecdotally through my network. Somebody was in my workshop, and she shared the ideas of project asked I can auctioneer with one of her colleagues, her colleague, was somebody who grew up in a revenue organization inside of a large company, she was wanting to make a career shift from sales as a sales professional to design. And she had an assumption that she would have to leave her company to do it. And through some peer coaching with this woman that was in one of my workshops, she told her Look, don't don't leave, ask. And she went to her manager and shared with her manager, her dreams to move into a design career. And they were able to craft a plan for her to move from a sales function into a design function in the creative team, in marketing, how wonderful for that organization to be able to retain that institutional knowledge that this woman had in the organization. And secondly, how wonderful for her to bring more into alignment, who she really was and the work she wanted to do in the world. So these are some examples of the four that's one example of that fourth pillar of balance and so money, authority. Influence balance. Well,
17:41
so this is a perfect segue because one of the things that you spoke about on a couple of the episodes of the podcast where you talked about letting your dreams be known by the people around you, and I love that but Dia that is terrifying. Because what if my dreams are too crazy? What if they're off base you know what if somebody says she was she's crazy, she can't go be in design, you know? And and you you have this this fear? I know you have an acronym about this but you have this fear of before you kind of put that out there in the world and and and so I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about about that letting your dreams be known by the people around you, and how do you get brave enough to do that
Dia Bondi 18:24
beautiful question. Um, so a couple of things. One is, we have to fall in love with our dreams and our goals. We have to actively fall in love with them. Like they are our children like they are our lovers in life like they are our dream house like they are these tenders special things that we revere and honor and, and treat as important. We have to actually actively treat them as important like their little separate entities to ourselves that we fall in love with. And we protect and we stand up for we champion and we coach and we speak to them as if we you know the way we want to be spoken to. So that I have found to be really important. First step. So actively get into love with your dreams and goals hard, because you've got to love those more than you hate the possibility of rejection, the possibility of someone not liking them. The possibility of someone telling you they're the wrong goals to have, they're the wrong dreams to have, because you get to want what you want. And if you want a little bit more of a boost on this, you can listen to our podcast episode with Lindsey Gordon. She is a career coach for analytically minded people. And she talks a lot about you know, she talks a lot about really letting yourself want what you want, and that what you want is never wrong. So step one to me is to fall in love with your Goals there's often when you know when I do coaching circles for women as a follow up to my to my workshops that I do and you know we will when we're looking at designing a strategic ask will often slow down and go tell me about your goals Why is this important to you why is this particular dream important to you and help me paint a picture and fall back in love with them? So that's number one. Number two, you can start small and let the let the people in your world who who you know are going to say yes do that Yes girl let them know first and get a little bit of practice there's um very interestingly and and also let people practice speaking and letting your goals by know be known in contexts where it doesn't you don't know what the outcome might be really simple example and we're going to have her on the podcast but Kara golden who's the founder of hint water maybe some of you enjoy hint water. And she's grown, you know, into a CPG brand. They're doing sunscreen and so many other things. Anyway, she heard her story is she ended up going to lunch in it for a job interview inside of, I don't know Google or some large organization in the Bay Area and at lunch, she shared with somebody that she was starting this small brand called hint and de nada and she ended up instead of getting a job at that company Google ended up being her first large account because the person at the at the lunch table was said like I'm sorry you're doing what and it ended up in her biggest first contract ever. So we have to fall in love with our goals enough and then we have to just speak them into the world low stakes situations high stakes situations interestingly, you know an internal example if I can keep keep going on this one was I was teaching a workshop actually at a company you guys probably use right now technology company, and and a woman she was in a she was in the legal function in our organization. And she talked about her goal first her said, She's, you know, I serve in the room, What's your goal, everyone, What's your goal? And people raised her hand and told me and she said, I said, you you she's raised her hand. I said, great. You have What's your goal? She said, My goal is to keep learning and growing. And I was like, bullshit. That's not a goal. That's an activity. Tell me the truth. She kind of looked over her shoulder, right and left, you know, and she was like, I want to be general counsel one day, and everybody in the room exploded. It was like, Yes, name it and claim it. Now let's fall in love with it. And now let's take the risk of letting the folks who can help you do that. No, that's your goal. And her first action ended up being the to let her manager know that that was her career goal. To let her manager know, yes, it's a risk. But what are we going to do? Keep it a secret? How can people help us when we keep it a secret?
23:04
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like I've just I want to I want to go find my goal and like go feed it and water it and let it grow and fall in love with it. And I mean, that's I think that's such a beautiful way to think about those things, too. Because if if you feel so strongly about something and if you so deeply believe it is your point that that becomes a really important counterweight to the fear of what somebody might might think about it.
Dia Bondi 23:29
Yeah, yes. Yeah. And and to you get to want what you want. And you know, when I say ask for more, and get it, everyone, I don't always mean right here right now in this negotiation, because you might not, you might ask for more here ask for more. They're asked for more, they're asked for more, they're asked for more there, ask for more there. And then you find the one that says yes, and you've asked for more, and you got it. But we have to think a lot we have to look at, we have to we have to deal with the moment and keep our eyes on the horizon at the same time. And the moments where the people go, Oh, that's a weird goal, or Who do you think you are? Those are just speed bumps, speed bumps.
24:09
Okay, so I feel like I know. Or I have a suspicion I guess about a goal of yours because you just did something really big you just launched a podcast, and it's a podcast for women with goals and really for everyone with goals. And I want to know more about what inspired you to create the show and I want to hear about some of the successes that you've had so far.
Dia Bondi 24:32
Well first, sure I want to get this out into the hands of more folks you know, my my everyday work is very intimate. I do a lot of one on one work I do workshops in you know small meeting groups and I do speaking engagements. But that but they're, you know, scale I have in mind, like get this into the hands of women as often and as quickly as possible. And so a podcast felt like the right strategy for me and So you know, I like to talk a lot I'd like to talk a lot so that it was it was the right format for me for sure. And and so for me that that it was the it was a right it was again it was just like it was the right strategy to get this into the hands of women who otherwise wouldn't have access who otherwise aren't working at Google X and have an opportunity to take the you know, the workshop like I don't really care if you're a woman who is you know, a release engineer who's looking to expand you know, her programming across 25 other high stakes projects at your fancy pants technology company, or if you are you know, if you're a woman who owns a small bakery and looking to open a second store or if you are a childcare provider and looking to you know, figure out how you can reach your goals faster, like if you're a recent graduate who is you know, opting for her very first job and and you know, feeling like she should take whatever she can get like up and down the scale of impact up and down the the I don't know the the range of experiences and stages that women are in, I want to I want to help and and podcast is the best way to do it.
26:14
Amazing, I want to I want to take a slightly a slightly different turn, left turn, because there there was a, I think this was a tweet actually, of yours. You have this amazing tweet that when we take on too many tasks, it can rob us of the rewards that come from collaboration. And as someone who maybe gets a little bit, you know, tunnel vision, just speaking for myself of you know, doo doo doo doo doo and kind of get the little happiness that when you can check something off your list and thinking about that actually, as kind of robbing you of the fruits of collaboration. And you're thinking that sometimes when we don't ask it's it's not because we're afraid people will say no, but it's because maybe we have this inertial drive to just do more ourselves and that that tendency is actually something that deprives us of an opportunity to grow. Is that a thing? I mean, was that what you were going for when you with that tweet? And sort of what what are your thoughts on that? taking on too many tasks versus the the opportunities that come from collaboration?
Dia Bondi 27:16
Yeah, I think it's just, you know, when we bring more folks into our world, and we share a world with them, we can see juxtapositions overlapping in a way that opens up something new for us. And it's easy for us to just sort of like not invite folks into our world and just get shit done. You know, and I think that is the that can be when we collaborate with others when we invite folks into our world it can be a creative instigator as well you know, you started talking about the the episode with David guff Guf Miller who is amazing and is really interested in nurturing a creative community you can also go to invisible talks, which is she and her partner launched that and they have some content online that you can rewatch if you are someone who is looking to continue to sort of invest in your own creative instigation and and inspiration but I think Yeah, what keep lifting our heads a little bit inviting people in we'll create an opportunity for you to see intersections you couldn't see otherwise and can broaden you know, widen our our peripheral vision and let more in and when we do that, we might see something we otherwise couldn't see with a very myopic focus on just checking the tasks off that we need to that we look at every day and feel like is the slog toward our goals? Yeah, it
28:47
almost feels like a different or a spin on another type of ask in a way and and one that maybe you're afraid that someone else will say no but but in this case, maybe you're afraid of your own tendency to not want to make that as to put yourself out there and see what happens
Dia Bondi 29:02
when here's the question what would the Ask be what is the ask that we may or may not be making in that moment?
29:09
Well
Dia Bondi 29:11
to collaborate the asks I have yeah
29:14
yeah, I mean it's either it's an ask for help but it's also an ask for input it's an ask for you know expanding right the taking someone's time right to get in the weeds with you and figure it out.
Dia Bondi 29:26
Yes, beautiful. I had a woman in one of my workshops at Latinas in tech last year or before the pandemic actually so year and a half ago she she came to the front of the room in my workshop your most powerful ask live we always do a live coaching at the end after I teach the core principles of how to shape a strategic and powerful ask. She came to the front of the room. She was a she was an in house professional, but it was starting her own startup and was like pre seed and looking for mentors and folks to be her. I can't remember they were exactly on her board. But the you know, the Ask was she wanted feedback on her fundraiser. Thing strategy or something. But what she really wanted was ongoing mentorship, what she really wanted was a group of mentors that would be happy to be invited into her world and explore her world with her not just 15 minutes of a little bit of feedback, whether she thought you know that her traction slide was good. And so being honest with ourselves about, you know, who we want to invite into our world, so we're not alone with this stuff. So we can make our dreams known to people who understand it is really critical to I think, also fortifying ourselves to be able to deal with those speed bumps, we will hit on our way to our goals, it's inevitable, ain't no, ain't everybody gonna like it? Not everyone's gonna like your goals, folks, they're going to bring their own shit to the table as they look at and hear about your own goals, the dreams that you have for yourself. And we can't let that stop us. But we can invite collaborators into our world who understand it, and are willing to give us our their heart and time and attention in a way that helps us stay on course. And that is risk.
31:08
And that actually kind of reminds me a little bit more another element of the conversation you had with David was about this messy middle, when you're in the process of creating something new or working towards our goal. And what you're talking about there about getting clear on what it is you actually want, I think is part of that messy middle of right doing that self reflection, or, I mean, what I think is so brilliant about invisible tubs too is it's it's a way to kind of give some form to that messy middle and just try to create something because that will further reveal what it is that you're actually trying to work towards. And so I'd love to hear more about your thoughts about that kind of messy, middle, and what can we do to sort of clarify for ourselves?
Dia Bondi 31:46
Yeah, so so because you hit the middle part, which is messy and confusing. I'm actually doing a few things right now in my business where I'm literally walking around going, what Where am I? What's going like, what am I doing again, things are not clear. And there's nothing actually to do I know actually where the what the goal is, but we're in that part where I'm like, I'm not sure if this fits, I'm not sure if that fits, I'm not sure that fits, and there's nothing wrong. nothing's broken. I'm just in that part. I'm just in that part. And it's easy for us to react and try to get clarity and do the thing. If you know what your if you know what your big goal is that part that are all the strategies that we're putting in place to help create that to make that goal come true. can feel a little bit like do I have all the Legos that I need and and we don't we there's nothing to do because it feels hard doesn't mean it's wrong in that moment. That's one thing I think we always have to remember that messy middle of like, Oh yeah, this is the foggy part, I think novelists get into that right, the first third of that book writing is great and that middle third is like whoa, and then the last third is like boom, now I see the path home, the middle of our car ride home from driving from you know, a long haul from here to there, that middle part is tough. So you just have to put but you know what, if you know where you're going you can have that internal fortitude to continue to go so that's number one. I think the other piece of that is that you know, we have to let ourselves have our goals for some of you know, folks on this call right now that you a goal might be I want to be director in three years. For other folks that might be a goal around I want to understand more deeply these three things in you know, in and around my territory, or I want to have my name stamped on the side of a building at some point or I want to be like I want to so our goals get to be our goals. And a big piece of being able to slog through the messy middle is to let ourselves have the goal that we want so that the slog of the middle feels worth it because the goal that it's getting us too is actually ours hmm I don't know if that was a little abstract but no no
33:59
i that is a that just feels so apt I mean especially thinking about just relating it back to the work at least that we're doing on the development side where it totally does feel like how can we how will we ever get there it's it's such a slog, and what what is it that motivates you and I think that that having that touchstone that vision, it kind of goes back to the conversation said earlier about falling in love with your goals, right? And if you believe in it so deeply, it kind of adds some clarity to that that middle part that's just hard.
Dia Bondi 34:26
Yeah. And I'll say to that, like it's really easy to get into gold shame. Like the goal that I have isn't the right type of goal to have. And I've also noticed there's sort of three gold categories that I noticed folks fall into one are like, do you have experiential goals? You know, the first 15 years of my career My goal was like, my goal was about have as have as diverse adventure was a goal. Everything I did if it did not have a quality event of adventure, I had to say no to it. So was that like a revenue goal is that a title goal? Is that really cool? Concrete Did anybody else know whether I achieved it or not? No, but I did. So experiential goals are legit. If there are women on this call who were like, I want to one of my goals I don't care about being a VP one day, our general or you know, Managing Director I want to work on the broadest set of diverse projects I possibly can and maybe I'll stay as an associate my entire career Who cares what matters to me is that I got to build this and I got to build that I got to build this and I got to work on that and I got to see this you know, this diversity of maybe adventure and experiences those could that can be a legit goal. One of them can be much more about recognition and you know, the titles and income that are recognizable to the world to signify achievement great, maybe you have those kinds of goals. And in some cases, the third category notice folks have goals that are really tied to like depth of knowledge and expertise. I don't care about building 10 different kinds of structures I don't know if and when everyone here is working on buildings, but I'm using metaphor anyway, I want to I want to be the expert in this kind of structure. Or I don't care about playing every single instrument in a band I want to be an absolute master at your stand up bass. So mastery goals experiential goals and recognition goals. So if anybody on the call is thinking like well I'm supposed to like I should probably at this time in my career be at a director level maybe you're actually maybe your goals are experiential, we can get off our backs about you know the type of goals we actually like and so that middle part in getting there feels like it's worth it because it's ours
36:47
and it will and it's and it's getting us to where we actually want to go not where we think we should be going
Dia Bondi 36:52
exactly so yeah I don't know if that's resonant for folks on the call I'd love to hear I'd love to hear in the chat if the if you know folks do you know your goal tight Do you know you know what kind of goals you have Are you in Are you a woman who's like you know I want to have as many different experiences as possible Are you the woman who's like nope, I'm going to be a boom I got like a real narrow track and it is going up into the right all the time or are you a woman who's like I want to be an expert and I don't care about managing people I don't care about you know diversity of projects I want to be I want to have depth of knowledge
37:25
and that and that all of those are great those are wonderful things you know i mean there's nothing wrong with either of the two of them or anywhere in between right and or you could even go between goals right at one period in your life you want to be very focused another period of life you want to be all over and that's that's okay.
Dia Bondi 37:41
Yes, exactly beautiful.
37:45
And that you your timing is perfect dia because we are going to save a few minutes at the end for any questions as well if anybody buddy wants to chime in so be be thinking about those, but I'm gonna sneak in one more question because that's like interviewer privileges I guess which by the way, so much more respect now for the podcast hosting gig because interviewing is hard you can get there's a lot going on there not too in the middle of it but very, very impressive. So another episode of the podcast as this great interview with Myra Benjamin, what a cool person and I love that she set you straight about the multitude of things that we're all asking for. And I'd love for you to tell that story because I think it's it's pretty incredible and so
Dia Bondi 38:34
Myra Benjamin she was director of engineering at Pandora and she was the first person I had I had made my dreams known to a guy named Paul Normington who she and Paul were like kind of in a box at at Pandora here in the Bay Area. And I was just share I'm just sharing with everybody I had this thing called Project as like an auctioneer I want to teach women and alella and and he passed it on to her she invited me to come give a talk at their Pandoras women in tech summit. So I went the week before to have lunch with her. No not laundries gonna have tea to talk about it. And I was like, normal like, I sorry, Myra, I was like, I I don't know if this is right because in when I first thought of project as like an auctioneer, I was really thinking about independent professionals and entrepreneurs and I was really mostly focused on the money asks like, I want to put more money in the hands of women so we can change everything for all of us if I can help a woman build a sustainable business by helping her raise her courageously raise her consulting rates. Yay. You know, I didn't think of it as something that would apply to you in house professionals. And over tea, she said to me, she was like, Girl, you she's like if you don't recognize the multitude of asks both money asks and no Money asks that we live with every day to advocate for our careers, ourselves and our goals in house, you are missing it. And she was so right, I didn't really recognize those four categories of asking. In fact, most of the time now when I have conversations with women money ask is like, kind of lower actually, because the money asked they make often are an outcome of the authority, they gain the influence that they gain the balance that they put in their lives, meaning alignment, internal and external selves, because they can be better when they're doing things they really love doing. And that is that sets up the foundation for making the money ask. So it was actually reverse of what I thought. And so she invited me and we did it. And that was sort of the big igniter at the beginning. And she did really open my eyes that you know, we are asking for so many things all the time across the board. And we can not just ask for more and get it we can use asking as a success strategy. And so I had to have her on the podcast.
41:02
It's she is totally right. And so we all owe her like a thank you card. Because I mean, nailed it. That that's for sure. And not to mention and she seems like a pretty cool person.
Dia Bondi 41:12
He's amazing. If there are folks here in the engineering space, she is you know, she's not in the she's on in the in the, you know, structural engineering space. She's in the software engineering space. But if folks are interested in you can find her on LinkedIn, Myra Benjamin, she is now actually director of engineering@change.org. She is a woman really interested in advocating for for change and for elevating women and particularly women of color in the space of, of engineering.
41:39
Awesome. Well, so if anybody has questions, feel free to either type in the chat or to use the raise your hand function on teams, and I will I will do my best to facilitate from there. But while while we're waiting, I want to talk a little bit about it was I was poking around on your website, and I saw about the zolfo. Can you tell us about Zoho and some strategies? Because I think we all find ourselves there. Yes, oh, pretty frequently.
Dia Bondi 42:10
So the Zoho stands for the zone of freaking out. And when I was thinking about thinking through I literally like wrote it on a post it note the night that I figured out that ask like an auctioneer was a thing. What does that actually mean? I wish I could draw the visual for you right now. But the Zoho is basically when we go to make an ask, we ask ourselves, you know, what do we think we can get? And that there's a relationship between courage and the asks that we make. The bigger the ask, the more courage we need. And the Zoho is the space between the ask that we're really comfortable making and the ask where we think we're going to get a no. And the answer, the question I have is why don't we make asks that live in the zone that live bits that are above what we think we can get? And the answer is because they live in the zone of freaking out? That's that feeling of like, Oh my god, I could never ask for that. Are you kidding me that feels like outrageous that if there's an ask that feels there it is in your Zoho, but your Zoho is also your zone of potential. Zoho is the place where all of the possibilities lie that are bigger than we think we can get for ourselves. And one of the key strategies This is really silly. But one of the strategies that I that I use now since I've been auctioneering, for a couple of years to help me make the asks that live in my personal zolfo. Because I have one too. I just sent a proposal to Salesforce and i and i was squarely in my zolfo when I put the number on the proposal. Yes, I was. And you know what's so sad? Is that they said yes, without even blinking an eye. And you know what that tells me tells me I left money and opportunity on the table. When I don't get to know now I'm like, Oh, I you asked, I made an ask that it was the lower end of my zolfo I should have pushed higher in my zolfo. So how do we do that? We remember that people are irrational. And you should never shop from your own wallet. Because you think it feels big doesn't mean that other people think it feels big. And what your rationale for why they say yes or no to it is not their rationale for what why they'd say yes or no to it. So stop making decisions for other people make the asks that are in your Zoho and see what happens. Mm hmm.
44:37
Okay, so we have we have some great questions. Great. I want to try and get to autumns. We've got three of them. So starting with Sam. Hi, Sam. Hi, Sam, do you have Do you have any suggestions on how to prioritize our goals?
Dia Bondi 44:52
Oh, you Oh, that's tough. suggestion on how to prioritize our goals. So I would say, to list out all the goals that you have, like maybe this three, maybe they're five, maybe they're whatever. And then as honestly as possible to circle the one that is most resonant, resonant, resonant mean, meaning it gives you that thrill to look at it, it makes you smile, when you think about it, it kind of scares the shit out of you a little bit. And that is the one that probably is the one worth making your dreams known about. It's probably the one that is easiest to fall in love with. And it's probably the one that you can tolerate the speed bumps on the way getting there, because it is the most alive for you. So I know that is not a very, you know, logical approach to it. But did I say a minute ago that people are irrational, I'm super irrational. So So yep, so listing those out and circling the one that is the most alive for you, not the one that you think is the best, not the one that you think is the most achievable, but instead the one that is most alive.
46:10
So there's a really good, and I don't even know they knew it. But I think Nate's question is a really good follow up to that, which Nate's kind of talking a little bit more from a negotiation standpoint, which is that you know, if you put something out there, and so finding yourself on that rejection side, does that ultimately reduce what you're able to get when you finally do land on something or he said said differently? Does being outside the compromise range with an ask reduce the size of the compromise range? When you actually get there? You know,
Dia Bondi 46:39
I gotta say, I have no idea. But the fact that you've touched the outer edge of the compromise range means that you are actually understand where the boundaries are. If you if you make an ask, and we get a Yes, right away, we don't actually know if we're in the center of the field, or with the edge of the field, or we actually touched the fence. So last year, I did I sent a proposal off for to work with an organization. And both in scope and price, they said yes, and I was like, okay, yay. And then I had an opportunity to send another scope to them for a different thing after we completed the first one. And they said, Yes, and I was like, Tam, okay. And then I sent the third one, and they said, oh, oh, wait, that that hits our budget, like we can you do it for, you know, and I was like, Yes, I can. And me and my operations manager, were so excited that we got to know because now we know where the fences are. Now we actually know how big house narrow the field is. So I don't have a way to answer that. Except that getting a no is a delightful thing, because you know exactly where the boundaries are. Think about it. My kids say, Mom, can I have seven? Can I have seven m&ms? And if I say sure they're like, can I have two more? I have a three more. But if I say if they say can I have 12 m&ms? And I say no. And they say How about seven? And I say yes, now they know where the boundary is. Well and
48:10
you know, coordinate because I probably Nate and I work together and I know that I tell Actually, it's more often than not it's Nate telling me No actually now that I think about it job to go, I gotta I gotta reverse this now and figure out where the fences are. Now that's
Dia Bondi 48:23
great. No, he's telling you where the fences are. Fantastic.
48:29
All right. And so we have another question from jack. Hi jack. About what recommendations do you have for people who are on the receiving end of the auctioneer's ask what about men so thinking maybe managers are
Dia Bondi 48:44
that is such a beautiful question. Thank you for that and actually it's the other so my book proposal on the head is in the hands of an agent right now for project for ask like an auctioneer so all y'all better get on my mailing list so you can get the pre orders when I actually get this book out into the world. You can go to deobandi.com for that. But But the second book I think, will flip the script a little bit on that that's a beautiful question because I think as askers we underestimate how much power we have it you know, we if you if you scroll through LinkedIn on your feed, you will find posts about people figuring out how to say no people struggling with saying no, so I don't know can you repeat the question for me or is it just like what are my thoughts about the folks on the other side?
49:35
Well, we have what recommendations do you have right and I think maybe they're just projecting here a little bit but you know, now that we know i mean that somebody is has this is the the garden of their dreams, right? This is something that's so alive to them, and they come to you with that or or you know, maybe they're on the other side of an auctioneer who's pushing a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. What what recommendations do you have for somebody who's who's receiving those things? How can we help Can we do that? Maybe in a way that is not discouraging, but also, you know, understand the limitations that we might have?
Dia Bondi 50:06
Sure. Well, I think right there is understand the limitations that you actually have that that don't go to, like understand that your know needs to be actually true. And not just a reaction, because someone is asking for something that is a little outside of your expectation, that's one, like, come at it with a little bit of generosity, and which isn't to say, give something you don't want to give. It's to say, like, where does this know coming from? Is this know coming from? You know, I don't like that you that you that you are advocating for something that is outside of the scope of how I see you? Or is it coming from we just don't have those resources? Is it? Is it? Is it true? Or is it a bias? Like that's something we want to we want to note, the other thing is that we can say no, with generosity by saying No, not this, but here's what I can say yes to. And that will help you bring to the table. A know that is true, even in the face where you even in the face of a desire to help to help or to meet the moment, you know, that is right in front of you. Now how we're going to do that is we're going to try and understand a little bit more about what the need is behind the ask. Because it might be that someone is asking you for something, assuming that the thing they're asking you four is the thing that will help them get to their goals. But when they actually, when you find out No, I can't do that. But help me understand what you're trying to create for yourself or where you're trying to go. I might have something else that I can say yes to that feels like less of a tax on you. I mean, look, I am a confident middle career, you know, woman working in the in the world of helping women ask for more and get it let's just say I get a lot of requests for advice. And you know, you know, pro bono coaching. And and I, there's only one of me. So I have to say no, and what can I say yes to? So that helps me further my mission without taxing myself too much. Because Oh boundaries are real. And understanding what is it the actual What is the need behind the ask, and then seeing if there's something that you can do to meet that need? Without saying yes to the thing? It's actually a no might be a strategy for you to come at something with generosity and curiosity and honesty at the same time.
52:27
Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of the conversation we're just having about, you know, is your goal experiential, right? And understanding like, Are you asking for this? Because it's an experiential thing. And what other experiences can we bring to bear that maybe are more possible, you know, right now,
Dia Bondi 52:41
in that way we're solving we are joining and collaborating on solving a problem, or reaching a goal together. And you know, it is really important to recognize that when we make an ask, we are putting pressure on someone, and we need to come at it. It's always a little struggle for me to talk about, ask for more and get it because it's easy to feel like it's all about getting, but instead it's it's it is about ask for more and get it so that we can reach our goals together so that we can be in relationship with one recognizing the relationship that we're in inside of that ask and honoring that relationship on both sides. Yeah,
53:17
yeah. Alright, one last question. I think it's the most important one. And of course, we only have one minute, but Lorena asks, How do I just get the confidence that I need?
Dia Bondi 53:27
Ah, act? So I have I love this question. Thank you for this, and I have a little bit of a spin on confidence. In the 20 years as leadership communications coach, I have a lot of clients say to me, I if I were just confident enough, I could X, Y and Z on stage. And we have to flip it. Confidence is an outcome of action, it cannot be a prerequisite. If you use confidence as a way to hold your goals hostage will never act. But if you are willing to take small actions tied to the goals that you have around a particular thing, you that will produce the confidence for the next action. So let yourself make asks, let yourself do the things that matter. While you're nervous. While you don't feel so confident. It's okay for us to act and expect confidence as an outcome of that instead of holding it as a prerequisite and a necessity in order to act.
54:22
What What a perfect note to end on Dia, thank you so much for spending an hour with us. I so appreciate your time. And I really encourage everyone to check out the podcast. Can you imagine like a nice little snippet of dia showing up in your podcast app. It's it's a really wonderful way to for me at least it I found it really helpful to focus and think about these really important concepts that are applicable to all of us at whatever stage of our careers that we're in. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank
Dia Bondi 54:51
you so much. We ship a new episode twice a month every other Wednesday and we'll be adding new episodes actually which will be live coaching conversation. with folks who opt in for for micro coaching with me, we'll turn those into episodes so you can see yourself in a real in a real conversation with a real person struggling with something that you might be struggling with right now.
55:12
Awesome. Well, thank you everyone so much. Have a wonderful rest of your Friday and an excellent weekend.
Dia Bondi 55:18
Thanks everywhere.
55:23
This is a production of Dia Bondi Communications scored, mixed and produced by BBA, you can like share, rate and subscribe at Apple podcast, Google podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcast. If you'd like to get Bondi to answer any questions about how to make your next big move, you can call into the show at 341-333-2997. Thanks for listening
