CEO & Founder

In this episode, we’re talking with Will Graylin about a few things: Love radio stations, a framework for navigating difficulty and conflict, and what to do when a founder (or maybe you) doesn’t see the path forward. 

Will says purpose is the way to stay connected to yourself and that the faster you’re going in your company, the farther down the path you need to see (he got that from his days on the motorcycle track). 

Listen in now for advice and perspective of this serial entrepreneur who is unafraid of embracing the challenge and taking the pain.

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In this episode, we’re talking with Will Graylin about a few things: Love radio stations, a framework for navigating difficulty and conflict, and what to do when a founder (or maybe you) doesn’t see the path forward. 

Will says purpose is the way to stay connected to yourself and that the faster you’re going in your company, the farther down the path you need to see (he got that from his days on the motorcycle track). 

Listen in now for advice and perspective of this serial entrepreneur who is unafraid of embracing the challenge and taking the pain. 

Will Graylin is currently Founder and CEO of OV Loop, Inc., a Universal Wallet and Commerce Messaging platform for frictionless commerce experiences everywhere. He is also CEO of Indigo Technologies, an Electric Mobility company with breakthrough affordable EVs for fleets & drivers. Earlier in his career, Will was the Global Co-GM of Samsung Pay, and Founder of LoopPay (acquired by Samsung), ROAM Data (acquired by Ingenico), WAY Systems (acquired by Verifone), and EntitleNet (acquired by BEA Systems/later Oracle). Will holds two Masters from MIT and serves on the Board of Directors for Global Unites (a non-profit organization to help youths around the world become local leaders through conflict transformation) and previously, Synchrony Financials (the largest private label credit card issuer in the world) for seven years.

See all his work here:


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Dia Bondi  00:19

Hi everyone, this is Lead With Who You Are. I'm Dia Bondi. And on this show, we explore and discover what it really means to lead with who you are. And we're doing it with people. And with me these days, because you're getting a lot of, of solo episodes coming up. But today we're doing it with someone who does lead with who he is. He is a well seasoned, mature serial entrepreneur. And here's what happened today. In this episode, we're talking with Will Graylin, about a few things. Check it out. Love radio stations, a framework for navigating difficulty and conflict, and what to do when a founder or maybe you even if you're not a founder, can't see a path forward for where you're trying to go when you're stuck what to do. Will says that purpose is the way we stay connected to ourselves. And the faster you're going in your company or business, the farther down the path, you need to see, you need to look you need to rest your gaze way out there when you're moving fast. He got that idea from his days on the motorcycle track, which we ended up having a little bit in common around motorcycle riding more on that in the episode. So listen in now for advice and perspectives of this serial entrepreneur who is unafraid of embracing the challenge and taking the pain. Let's go.  Hey, just a quick reminder, you can subscribe to this show on your podcast platform of choice. We're live nearly everywhere and you can always listen to the show at If there's a leader or innovator in your life, who is it their shiniest when they lead with who they truly are, Please share the show with them. And rate, subscribe, and leave us a review. It makes a huge difference in the reach that the show has when you let everyone else know what you love about the show. Thanks so much.  You can ask for more and get it if you ask like an auctioneer. The book Ask Like An Auctioneer: How to Ask For More and Get It is coming soon. So go to and get on the list for pre orders now. In the book you'll learn the power of asking big the one idea that holds us back from asking for more and getting it and the nine ideas I learned from the auctioneering stage that you can use as strategies to help you step into every ask with courage and conviction. Get on the pre-order list now for pre-order bonuses again go to now. Will Graylin is currently Founder and CEO of OVLoop Inc., a universal wallet and commerce messaging platform for frictionless commerce experiences everywhere. He's also CEO of Indigo Technologies and electric mobility company with breakthrough affordable EVs for fleets and drivers. Earlier in his career wil was the global CO, GM of Samsung Pay and Founder of Loop Pay acquired by Samsung roam data acquired by Ingenico Waste Systems acquired by Verifone and Intitle. Net acquired by BA Systems and later oracle will holds two Master's from MIT and serves on the board of directors for global unites a nonprofit organization to help youth around the world become local leaders through conflict transformation and previously synchrony financials, which is the largest private label credit card issuer in the world will so nice to see you. Will thanks so much for being here and you are on lead with who you are because you are a serial entrepreneur. And when I look at your work, I see that you likely have done a lot of hard stuff along your journey. And I imagine that you've built out your own leadership philosophy or at least sort of a set of operating principles that you bring to bear in your own leadership, whether you're starting something new, or you know leading something that has been around for a while. And um, you know, I imagine also that you bring that to your mentoring conversations and the way in which that you the way in which you guide other entrepreneurs and founders around you whether you're sharing in an executive role with them, meaning, you know, at the executive table with them, or actual formal mentoring conversations, and today I want to talk about your journey and leadership approach and especially those hard spots for for any entrepreneur, any founder, we're in the right squarely in the middle in the middle of a big, messy leadership level up moments like when you're growing something and need to stay on top, my clients suffer with this sometimes stay really rooted in vision and also minding execution. You know, that can be a very bifurcating experience for folks. So how that ends up being a big growth spurt, I think for a lot of leaders that I work with, and I'm curious to talk about that with you. And, and I want to start though, with your journey, and starting with this, I already we we set you up and share that you have two master's degrees from MIT. Just why two, Will? One wasn't enough?


Will Graylin  05:43

Well, the two degrees are actually part of a program that MIT put together called, initially, it was called leaders for manufacturing, because we, we have people that are business oriented, but very lacking in engineering, and we have lots of engineering geeks that are lacking in business. And in the 80s, we were getting our lunch handed to us by you know, foreign competitors, and Japanese and so forth, particularly manufacturing. So MIT set up this dual degree program called LFL. Leaders for manufacturing, right?


Dia Bondi  06:17

So saying yes to one program meant saying yes to two to two Master's degree to a dual master's degree program. That's cool. So before we move on to talk a little bit, go back into your journey. Can you share a little bit about your participation with global unites and what really drew you to that nonprofit?


Will Graylin  06:34

Sure. So I met this extraordinary social entrepreneur named Prashant fuzzer. That started global unites from a very authentic place. And he had the he grew up in Sri Lanka, during the Civil War period, and was very much experiencing what had happened in his own country, and then came out here in the United States for graduate school, Gordon College Notre Dame, and really found his calling to look at how you build peace movements, from the grassroots, from the young people's minds, and helping them see others not as their adversary, but seeing them as part of the solution towards their community, and how do you rebuild community through peace movement that's non violent, but getting to know each other and arming these young people. So he started out by hating the other side, because that was what he was taught to do. But, you know, the minority was, was fighting the majority. And the suicide bombing was actually quote unquote, invented out of Sri Lanka. And having seen that, tear up the community, he decided to start this movement from everything that he learned from from from the west and reapply it. And not only has he built up, Sri Lanka unites, but he's now built up global unites in 13 different countries and sharing the philosophy of bringing up young people that bringing them into dialogue, bringing them into hope, skill sets that they can apply, rather than being recruited by ISIS, and by, you know, the extremist organizations that lead them to hate. So that was, I felt was an important mission. And I joined them initially as a, as a donor as a as a as a board member. And eventually, they've asked me to step in as chairman. So great kudos to them. And you saw the you saw what happened in Sri Lanka recently, right, a peaceful transition of power by those who are protesting peacefully, but making change for the next generation of leaders to take, take take ownership of their communities.


Dia Bondi  09:19

So this might be an odd question I hadn't planned but you know, is what you learned about, you know, the the methodologies, the approach the philosophy that you're exposed to through working with this nonprofit? Does that show up in the way you may be lead and or approach conflict in the workplace?


Will Graylin  09:41

It definitely is part of that application. I learned from I learned from Chris Shawn and the organization and what he's trying to do in a macro level. And, you know, in other other nonprofits, not The one that that I'm currently working with is called Roca here locally in the northeast, helping young people that are about to go to jail, because you know, they are also on the fringes, and how do you help these young people change the way that they think? And also, not just them. But the police officers in the in the neighborhood? How do they think, relative to each other? And how do we improve recidivism, and keep them out of that never ending cycle, that vicious cycle? So all of that requires communication and tapping into the think feel do cycle, which is not just for those issues. But every day when you're sitting at work? You're trying to get something done? How do you treat your co workers? You know, how are you treating your partners? How are you treating your spouse at home? And your children that, you know, is going through their teenage years?


Dia Bondi  11:08

Say more about think field do as a model? How do you use that isn't about what I think what I feel what I'm going to do is about understanding how others think, how they feel and what they are doing. Talk to me about that?


Will Graylin  11:20

Yeah, so in conflict resolution, and there's always multiple parties at at the conversation. And immediately, usually, people react emotionally, because there's something that triggered a emotional response that may have nothing to do with the immediate situation. But the inferred insult or the inferred threat triggers an emotional response. So you're not thinking and you're not thinking, is this true? Wait a minute, is this true? So that's the first step is getting people to stop for a moment to think and analyze? Is this true? Number two is even if it's true, is what my response going to be helpful? And if it's not, can I pause rather than immediately react? How did it make me feel, and linking the fact that what I interpret, created the feeling and as my feeling appropriate to express? Because that next part? So having them filtered before I do, because the do could be just blabbing out something that could hurt someone or could create an escalation and the tension and the conflict or even striking out because some of the some of the people that, that these young people that we're dealing with in the nonprofits, they literally are, you know, what they can do, especially if they're armed with a weapon? Could be you can't take back.


Dia Bondi  13:04

Yeah, it's very interesting, because, you know, a lot of the work that I do with leaders that I, that I, or you know, or in my client portfolio are really trying to sort out these exact sort of moments, when do when does my voice advanced something? When does it deteriorate something? How do I use it in such a way that creates alignment instead of deteriorating it? But there's also so many feelings, you know, in the stage that I worked with them, and I had a client last week who said to me, I'm just, you know, they're trying to do something really hard. You know, they're trying to get to a revenue goal that makes everybody happy, or and or at least at minimum relieved. And it's it's, it's difficult, you know, things break constantly. There's struggle and and conflict, not in the not in the big, huge effusive way, but it is the context of of con of conflict all the time, every conversation is a hard conversation. And he said to me, I'm just so tired of feeling like I'm on the battlefield all the time. You know, and this idea, we know what comes to mind when you when you bring up this idea of think feel do is like that almost slows things down. And lets you take stock of the gap between what's maybe intended and what you heard. Absolutely. And then how you are going to use your leadership voice to have an impact on the situation or not.


Will Graylin  14:38

It's a philosophy in a level of consciousness that not only do we have to understand that, it's something that exists out there and we can control but also, how do you apply it in such a way that you can win? astrue it, through practice, and seeing these conflict opportunities as opportunities to grow. And, you know, how we see ourselves and how we how we use this analogy do how we apply this technology that we may not necessarily be aware of, or they don't teach us necessarily in school. Many parents may not be aware of how to teach this to their children. But what if, and I'll use this, this analogy of, of, just because you don't see, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. So we, as human beings are just starting to learn how to discover the the technologies and the physics that are built into the universe, these laws of the universe that we didn't know before. But once we've discovered it, then we can apply ourselves to use it, and, and make use of it to improve not only our own being but the entire society. I'll give you an example. So 150 years ago, nobody knew in the world of humanity, what electromagnetism is, it was just, you know, through some experiments by, by Faraday, they're saying, Oh, my God, you know, there's, there's this phenomenon. And Maxwell wrote it into an equation. And we can repeat it, then another 50 year goes by, you got hertz, saying, Hey, we got these, these radio waves. And maybe what we can do is send a signal using electromagnetism and receive it on the other side. And if we can do that, across the ether, nobody can feel or touch it, right? This is just observed phenomenon that turns into a radio. So what if I could modulate the frequency or modulate the amplitude, and now I can actually transmit across the ether, to the point where today, we can't live without the radio that are invented by our forefathers. And you and I are talking over on this radio mechanism today. Now, what if there was a emotional radio that we can learn how to operate? What if we don't just abdicate our emotions to whatever is going on, and we are controlling that radio knob. And if you think about our emotional radio, the positive emotions, and I use this word love is in every culture, no matter what language is out there. And and we can experience it, we can feel it, and what if we can? We know what it feels like? What if we can dial into that channel that lets us stay into that channel, where we are the most productive, we are the most creative, we are the most positive and influential to the world around us. And in fact, just even the definition of love this word love. How do we define it? That I've, I've searched high and low and I eventually came up with a simple definition, I'll see if whether you agree or like it or don't like it. But this four letter word, he said Love is a sense of purpose. For something that's greater than itself. So a sense of purpose for something greater than self could be applicable to others course, you know, my love with my, my wife, my love with my, my kids, my dog, even my job what I'm passionate about nature. Then if you love nature, you love the universe, right? So it's that sense of purpose.


Dia Bondi  19:29

So I will say that that's, that resonates with me very strongly. And it's so interesting. I'm about to go into doing a bunch of executive communication support around a large event that's going to be happening in San Francisco. And my conversations always start with purpose. And I'm not talking about the purpose of their job. I'm asking the question, Who are you? What drives you? What what purpose do you lean into? Do you do you Do you lead into even regardless of your job description? Whether you are, you know, coaching your kids baseball team on the weekends, or you're showing up in an executive boardroom? Are you? What are you looking and listening for? Where? What has your attention? What calls you forward? What kind of impact do you want to have on those things, we always start with that, because I've seen over and over again, that when you can name that and claim that when you can put it on the table, when you can make it evident to yourself, and not just implicit, you can make it explicit for yourself, then you can use it as a guiding force, and stand in it. And that helps us speak maybe more with more with more power and more purpose when we do have an opportunity to have an impact.


Will Graylin  20:47

That's right. That's right. So if if, if that radio station is if you know that station, what frequency you tune into, then you're much more likely to go to that station rather than being pulled by other people who might have cut you off or flip you off or say something that, you know, hurts in your way, all of a sudden, you are on a different station. And I would say well, what's the station that's opposite of love? What's the opposite of love. And I would go so far as to say, well, if love is a sense of purpose for something greater than self, then the opposite of love would be a sense of purpose for only self. So that means is where all the negative emotions come from. It's selfishness. It's, it's arrogance, it's fear, it is anger, it is jealousy and envy. All of that is it's all about the self, rather than the sense of purpose for greater than self. So can we if we know that definition, can we purposely dial into that radio station? So that and stay there and not get pulled back? Because there are many forces that want to pull our radio station to the other side? Yes,


Dia Bondi  22:03

absolutely. Now, okay, so you have a strong guiding, sort of, you have these frameworks that you shared with us right now, you sort of have a strong philosophy here. I'm curious, and you've built a lot of things in your career. And I'm curious, can you point to a few catalyzing moments in your own career that helped you be able to sort of harness your own philosophy and figure out how will does it not how you're supposed to do it when it comes to your own approaches to leadership, collaboration, the things that make scaling things, the things that make building things possible? What are one or two catalyzing moments in your career along your journey?


Will Graylin  22:54

I would say there's something of a misconception that took me a while to look back and realize and that is it's never one or two catalyzing moments because you have many wins, and, but a lot more of losses. So what I've recognized is that, you know, the average person and even myself when I was younger, I like to catalogue all of my wins, I love to have a trophy of all of my, you know, oh, look at all my success. And therefore, you know, I want to think of myself as a successful person, because I've achieved x y&z and I'm striving to, you know, make these grades or win that championship, and, you know, close that deal and, and, you know, sold this company and made this much profit for my investors. And these are just things that I'm trying to, like keeping score, but here's what they don't tell you. And I didn't tell myself until I really reflected back and go, you know, what, I've had 10 times more losses in order to achieve those wins. And every loss, every setback, every negative things, if I kept all those scores, I would have recognized that it would take me X number of tries to do something the right way. So and it kind of dawned upon me that it's a continuation and no matter what, you know, the good news is you get better at what you do over time. You get better at at having that tough conversation with an employee or you know, how to properly You have that conversation and dialogue to help your customer, or whatever it is, you're, you're just getting better. But the only way that I got better was because I screwed up that time and that time and that time. So that to me is is a is a is something that I think we need to talk more about, as you know, so you don't not afraid of failure, you're not beating yourself up over. You know, that didn't work. Now, it's not the end of the world. Okay, think of what's going to work next. Oh, shoot, they turned us down for that round of investment. All right, good. Let's chalk it up. What can we learn? Who what? Where else? Can we get that? You know, next round of investment? Or the next investor that will say yes, because you can get 99 noes. But one, yes. gets you to that next level.


Dia Bondi  25:54

Yeah, this is I think you're right, that talking more about this in the life of leaders, the experience and the arc of somebody's leadership career, as they build, you know, and, and catalyze others as they accelerate, you know, the accelerate the businesses that they've brought into the world, is just how much how much rough road there is, and how little smooth road. This is, you know, I notice, I am not an entrepreneur at the scale that my clients are, but I do observe their journeys. And so often I see, when they they see that things are just burning to the ground. I see. But look how far you've come. It's like the burning to the ground is the progress. It is the thing. The 99 noes is feeling like it's burning to the ground, and it's the necessary to get to the one yes, it's part of the process, isn't it? I had an old colleague who said to me, When Everything Feels like it's going wrong, it's not because it's, it's not because it's wrong. It's because you're on to something,


Will Graylin  27:11

it's part of the journey. And having that persistence and not not giving up, but also be brave enough to examine what worked and what didn't, without beating up yourself and your team. Right without beating up yourself and your team. So that the pragmatic approach has to be there. Otherwise, it's so hard to make it all the way through the journey.


Dia Bondi  27:39

Absolutely. I love that without be able to look closely and carefully to ask the powerful questions without beating up on yourself and your team. That is hard. I mean, because in these moments, things are turned up, things are triggered. Right? And is that a moment to come back to our think, feel do when things feel like they're on fire?


Will Graylin  28:04

Yeah, it's, it's, it's think feel do but more importantly, stay on the radio station of love. Because anytime that if you're not on FM love, you're pulled into FMX evil by the way, if you spell love backwards, it's easy. Oh, well, it sounds like evil, right? That sense of purpose. We're


Dia Bondi  28:31

only so mad.


Will Graylin  28:34

But, but we get pulled into that that fear that despair, that anger that envy, blame labor? So is it productive? No, it's not. And sometimes what you have to recognize is that that, you know, you're that hunter that is out there. Trying to bring home the game for your tribe for your family. You're responsible for your actions. And no matter how hard it is, you have to figure out how to adapt and how to survive so that your tribe can survive and you're leading the hunt party. Sometimes you are the leader sometimes you're part of the hunt party. But you got to be out there hunting for energy. And you have to also recognize that hey, you know what, I was really good we bagged that. That that GSL we brought home look at that the next time or the next time may not be as easy anymore. Because the next time you may be you may be in a winter seat season right you you may be in the snow you may be the game is are just not as valuable as it is in the spring in the summer. And raising capital is is freaking hard right now? And can you make it through the winter? Can you stay sharp? And figure out what's the most efficient use of your energy? And me, you may be down to one arrow, where are you going to point that arrow.


Dia Bondi  30:16

So the, I see a dance a lot. And and you know, even with people I come across in my workshops for my book, and you know, places where I'm doing skills based stuff and not working privately with founders, people run into roadblocks all the time, on their journey toward a particular goal on, you know, bringing a vision to life. And there are moments where you say, like, we get 99 noes and one yes, you know, sometimes somebody might be in 278 79 knows, and they can't, like an entrepreneur cannot see a path forward. Things are constrained. Cash is tight, talents, not activated in the way that you want it, et cetera, et cetera, problems everywhere, and you cannot see the path forward to get where we want to go. And the longer you stare at the problem, the more narrow maybe your thinking becomes, and you just can't I've had founders multiple times, say to me, I don't know what to talk about right now. Because I don't even feel like I see the path forward. So what does a founder do? When they've come this far? There are certain sets of constraints, and they need to get to the next thing, and they don't see the path? How did how does the founder get on? What did he do? What do you do?


Will Graylin  31:33

So first of all, dialing into that, that, that place where that radio station again, because you know, you're on the wrong station, when you see those, see no hopes, you know, path, and it's a dark place to be. So put yourself into the right frame of mind, and get yourself out of that opposite radio station. If you can't get there, your team is not going to get there. And it just takes it takes effort. And, and, and then once you've gotten that, to that place of emotional balance, and you know, you go back to the word that you use earlier, which is purpose. If you're in that, that place of love, you know, what your purpose is, is, you know, your sense of purpose is for something greater than yourself, you know, what the why of your company is? Why are we doing this, you know, and if you need a pivot, you pivot. But if you need a bolt through and break through and break down that wall, you break down that wall, that leads you to do because if you don't have the emotion to have the why and purpose, your deal is going to be so weak that it will, it's not going to break down any walls. So


Dia Bondi  32:57

it's not going to have the stamina or the fuel, you need to do the hard thing. I think that's a mean, we know that purpose is a great source of courage. And can can be the fuel for the stamina, you need to think to get where you need to go. So you're right, if we don't source action from a place that isn't anemic, then you know, we have to source action from a place that feels rich, you know, for our


Will Graylin  33:21

powerful because guess what a radio station, a radio has. It's not just a frequency knob, okay, there's, there's a frequency knob, and then there is a power knob, you better crank up the power and crank up that volume. Otherwise, nobody hears you, and you're gonna be anemic. So power and love are the two most these two knobs we have to be able to control. Sometimes it just means amping yourself up. And you got to do whatever you do, because the mind the body and the spirit are all connected. So the thinking the feeling, and then the doing has to be, you know, connected in in alignment. And if if you do that, then then and you keep doing it and you don't back off and just go back to your corner and back to that the evil station again, and feeling sorry for yourself and then losing your power that you got to stay there. And that's what leaders do if they're going to be able to pull through.


Dia Bondi  34:30

So I hear you saying that like in these kinds of moments when you can't see that. It's gonna say back to you what I think I heard you say that when we're in these moments where we've gotten this far, and I don't see a path forward. Okay, can't the math ain't mapping so to speak, whether it's you know, what needs to happen with the product, where we're going with customers, whether it's about fundraising, et cetera, we, we have to actually get into the feeling place where we become I'm more settled and connected with ourselves so that we're more resourceful, it's really hard to do any productive good thinking when we're a place of like very few emotional resources. And then for the action to be informed by purpose.


Will Graylin  35:14

Yep. Yep. And to have that persistence and tenacity, bear through that pain, because there is pain. And if you keep at it, and keep bearing at it, without giving up, you know, the world will come to you, your opponent will give up first before you give up, but if you give up first, the world gets you. Right. So it's like, I used to be a wrestler, very competitive wrestler. And, and I remember as I was learning and going through that, that pain of of getting better. And you can tell moments where, you know, let's say I was, you know, you're down by one and, and it's the last period, and you're locked in trying to take this guy down to get your to, and, and you're in the stalemate position, and you're fighting and fighting and fighting, and you're feeling like you're giving it everything that you got, you almost got no more to give, and you're just about to give up the position and quit. But that's let's second right before you give up. He gave up and you took him down.


Dia Bondi  36:25

So this is, you know, everyone loves a special, you know, I sit in and around Silicon Valley, and the culture of the entrepreneurial culture of Silicon Valley. And everyone loves a strong reinvention story. They love a story about successful pivots. And everyone loves to sort of look at those as these sort of shining examples of what's possible in an innovation and entrepreneurial culture. But we often don't bring voice to how to the pain, and the difficulty of implementing and creating those kinds of transformations. You know, what, you know, when when we only see the like, sort of final product and a few articles here and there about what it took to do it. But the difficulty that leaders endure the pain leaders endure, around making the decisions they have to make to action, the path that they finally see, to make the strong decisions to go one way or another for the long term survival of the business. Like, that is not it goes to that 99 failures in one, you know, nine, nine noes and one yes, we don't speak to like, there. It's not painless. It's not a moment of genius, a decision and everything's shiny again. It's hard,


Will Graylin  37:41

very hard, very, very hard. I stopped counting. I'm on my fifth and sixth startup right now. And via I've stopped counting, after the 19th time that I've come within one or two payrolls of running out of cash. Yes. Scary. And, and I'm still going through that, even today, because it's it's


Dia Bondi  38:08

part of it is this It is the work, isn't it? That is the work?


Will Graylin  38:13

Yeah. So you got to stare it in the face and not worry about that. You know, that? That edge? Because you can't stare into that edge. Otherwise, you go right into the edge, right. So I've seen many of the founders that I've invested in, and sometimes other founders, you know, they're like, Okay, we're, we're three months from running out of cash, we need to start preparing for bankruptcy. And the times are so hard and see, it's like, I'm like, I'm within two weeks of running out of cash. And I'm gonna figure out what I gotta do within the next two weeks to find an investor, find a customer finding, you know, some way to make that payroll. So, so as soon as I look to, alright, what do I got to do to you know, deal with HR and, and wind down chapter seven? As soon as I look in that direction, guess what, that's exactly where you're going. It's called Target fixation. When, you know, I ride motorcycles also,


Dia Bondi  39:20

I did too, until I was pregnant on my first so yeah, no, like, you have to look where you want to go. Where you gonna go? If you can't look at what you want to avoid, because that is exactly what you'll run into


Will Graylin  39:31

exactly. Target fixation. Whether it's a pilot or a motorcyclist or, you know, entrepreneur.


Dia Bondi  39:38

Yeah, if you want to nerd out on motorcycle riding like I mean, I I learned a little something about countersteering. You know, I live in Northern California. And so you go out for a Sunday ride in the twisties. Right. And I when I started to feel what it meant to do countersteering which for folks who are listening, if you want to go write it because you're going around a hairpin that goes to the right you're actually pushing your your your Pushing the front of the bike to the left and it kicks you, right? Anyway, like, that is almost a mental model that I often want to tap into with my founders to go, Okay, you think you want to go right? But let's, if we push energy the opposite way, what do we create for ourselves, like we get, there's one thing to have to look where you want to go, there's another thing to feel what it's like to sort of, I don't know, leverage the opposite thinking to see what we can unlock


Will Graylin  40:30

Yeah, to to initiate that turn and get you into that turn. There's the counter steering part. But if you really want to, and the faster you go, the further ahead that you look to where you're going. So if specially in a turn, your heads got to be turning all the way to the, to the point where you want to go. So I'll give you an example of the there's a turn seven on New Hampshire International Raceway. So you're you come off a turn six, you're speeding down and you hit into turn seven, and turn seven is this big bowl, okay. And it banks into this really, really long turn. So as you dip into turn seven, and it's a left hand, turn, my neck is like turn all the way around me. But while the My bike is this way, and I'm looking towards the other side of the tour seven where it


Dia Bondi  41:31

is right, you're looking at like the top of the hill on the at the end of turn.


Will Graylin  41:35

Right, exactly, how am I going to exit that turn. So in entrepreneurship, you better be the faster you're going. The further ahead you better be looking because if you're looking mediately in,


Dia Bondi  41:47

that's beautiful, the faster you're going the further ahead you better be looking,


Will Graylin  41:51

same principles same.


Dia Bondi  41:51

And again, then living in that gap of like, hey, looking way way ahead, and also being able to execute know what needs to be done now.


Will Graylin  41:55

on the turn, you got to execute on


Dia Bondi  42:05

right. because in this track example. You're physically right here and operating the motorcycle right here right now. Yeah, but you're but you are your gaze is fixed on what way down the way at the end.



Yep. And then there's another aspect, which is you better figure out how to relax your body and control your breathing while you're in this, you know, pulling G's and adrenaline rush right, and you're trying to be as smooth as you can. While you're going 100 miles an hour. So Breathe.


Dia Bondi  42:44

Did you? Yes. I don't know if you saw I'm forgetting the name of it. But there's a documentary about that put Nicky Hayden and is it Nicky Hayden who was a Moto GP racer, and, you know, the skinny Italian guy with a big curly hair. This is years ago, so he was he was champion like 10 years ago, maybe anyway, put these two guys and just sort of examine how they ride and the Italian guy. His resting heart rate when he's doing when he's going around the track not in a race but just like going for time was like a good I don't know, it was like 52 beats per minute instead of Nikki Hayden's, you know 71 That he could maintain such a low heart rate while he was under such incredible I want to call it stress he might not characterize it as dress was probably a lot of what informed how aggressive he could be on the track. Are you looking at up right now? Yeah. It's ride the the movie is?



Who did they? Who did they? Are they are they talking? Marquez or rossi?


Dia Bondi  43:58

Rossi. That's what I'm thinking. He was racing against Hayden during that time. Nicky Hayden I think his name was anyway. Yep. Bottom line is like it's very interesting to point to this idea of like, being able to maybe just to go back to your idea to dial in to that station that keeps you on purpose grounded to yourself and as settled into your settled as possible. While you're going as fast as possible. Like that is a very not get frost up with everyone around you who's getting frothed up, that is an opportunity, really to lead us forward, isn't it when things are crazy and feel crazy, and you're unknown number 86.


Will Graylin  44:43

That's right. That's right.


Dia Bondi  44:44

Well, my last you know, I had like 15 Questions prep for you. And this went totally a different direction, which is like so awesome. I love it. I was just halfway through this discussion. I was like, Well, I sent him his questions to his team earlier and we didn't do any of them but I It sounds like we're okay with it. I am I certainly certainly this is a surprising and wonderful conversation to think about these frameworks of, you know, that you are drawing from your conflict transformation model around think, feel, do this idea of sort of dialing yourself in into a frequency where you can sort of stay on purpose and, you know, be in a place of having an impact instead of just living in reaction. And then, you know, this notion of, this is what I'm taking from our conversation, this notion of being able to have that present and active, you know, when you're, when you're going into these turns, you know, where things could go a ride, but they also are an incredible thrill. And that the faster we go in anything we're pursuing, you know, again, I'm not an entrepreneur, I'm now pursuing, sort of my my next chapter in my professional life is exploring and accelerating my, I would say, like, my creative life around writing, and I recognize that, you know, I'm, I want to move quickly, and not lose sight of what it's for, for me. So any of us as we go really, really fast, we have to lift our gaze, and further down the track, we have to look. So we know where we're taking this thing, while we're at the same time present in the moment. So good. So, so good.



And I would say just one more for in the same thread, which is just taking a mindset of embracing the adversity, and embracing your failures. Because those two things, it's the only way to get better. Because, okay, that company did it that way, you know, that's an entrepreneur did it that way, during his time for his industry, that's all great. They did it their way. But for you, you are here you are, at this time, you are this industry, solving this problem with this purpose. And it's going to be hard. But embrace the adversity, embrace the failures, because that's teaching you on how to get better, and never give up and just say, hey, pivot, but don't give up. You know, your pivot means just adjust on how you're going to solve that problem. So if you can do that, then the journey is so much more fun and rewarding. And then after your your nine failures, you then might get a win and savor and you know, you've got your win towards your purpose did you achieve it? So if we, if we live by those compass and those those thought processes, which took me a long time to, to even practice that, that kind of not that I'm not that I'm where I want to be is just a part. Do we ever at least I know that


Dia Bondi  48:00

here's the problem will once we arrive, once we achieve a goal, what do we do know we never arrive with a whole new set of things we want to do and experience and you know, we get onto a new path equally Rocky, with moments with moments of achievement, but mostly, I love this embracing the struggle is like it's a mindset that makes it makes not everything feel like that is the work



as long as you're still on your path on your purpose, right? If you still feel that, this this is what I'm doing and at the mat just doing it for the money or not just doing it from my ego and from my fame or, you know, some deficit in my childhood that I want to fill in and it's like, okay, if you're not doing it for the wrong purpose, then it's worth it. Go at it. Face the pain, it's worth it.


Dia Bondi  48:55

Lead With Who You Are is a production of Dia Bondi Communications and is scored, mixed and produced by Arthur Leon Adams the third. Have a question or an inquiry? Reach out to us at You can like, share, rate and subscribe at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your favorite shows. Go to for the show notes to find our tools, frameworks, content and programs to help you and your team speak powerfully and lead with who you are.

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