Entrepreneur & Creator of And Then Moments

What’s an “and then moment”?  It’s one of those moments in our lives and careers when someone else accelerated us toward what we want for ourselves.

Listen to this episode with Taylor Doe about how we can all create our “and then moments” leveraging our community of champions.

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In this episode we’re talking with Taylor Doe or T-Doe, creator of the idea of “And Then Moments”.  In this conversation, T-Doe challenges us to uncover our own “and then moments” and notice who made them possible. Because we don't get where we are alone.  

He shares the idea of keys, people in our networks and the resources we have, and that keys are not equal opportunity. Some of us are born with a lot of keys, and some of us are born with very few- and what to do about it when you’ve got keys and want to give them away. 

If you're looking for an episode with a heroic story of a self made man, this is not it. It’s better than that. 

In the episode we reference a study from Stanford.  Find an overview and access to the research paper here.

Watch Taylor’s TEDx Talk

Visit his website.

Follow him on Instagram

Connect with him on LinkedIn.

Check out all things Dia Bondi here.

Dia Bondi  00:19

Hi Everyone, this is Lead With Who You Are. I'm Dia Bondi and on this show we explore and discover what it really means to lead with who you are. And we're doing it with people who embody that. And today, you're gonna love what we have for you. I did. In this episode, we're talking with Taylor Doe or T. Doe as he's known, Creator of the idea of And Then Moments. In this conversation, T. Doe, challenges us to uncover our own and then moments. And while we're doing that, notice who made them possible, because we don't get where we are alone. He shares the idea of keys, people in our networks and the resources we have access to, and the keys are not equal opportunity. Some of us are born with a lot of keys, and some of us are born with very few and what we can do when we're the one with the keys, and we want to give them away. If you're looking for an episode with a heroic story of a self made, man, this is not it. It's way better than that. Let's go. You can ask for more and get it if you ask like an auctioneer. The book, Ask Like An Auctioneer, How To Ask For More And Get It, is coming soon. So go to asklikeanauctioneer.com and get on the list for pre orders now. In the book, you'll learn the power of asking big the one idea that holds us back from asking for more and getting it and the nine ideas I learned from the auctioneering stage that you can use as strategies to help you step into every ask with courage and conviction. Get on the preorder list. Now for pre order bonuses. Again, go to asklikeanauctioneer.com now.  Hey, just a quick reminder, you can subscribe to this show on your podcast platform of choice. We're live nearly everywhere and you can always listen to the show at diabondi.com. If there's a leader or innovator in your life, who has it there shiniest when they lead with who they truly are. Please share the show with them. And rate subscribe and leave us a review makes a huge difference in the reach that the show has when you let everyone else know what you love about the show. Thanks so much.  Since graduating from the University of Oklahoma, Taylor Doe, or T. Doe, as he's known, has lived between what Martin Luther King Jr. called The Two Americas. He's worked in corporate America at SandRidge energy, founded a tech company with one of his brothers, and for the last decade has devoted himself to building relationships and community initiatives in northeast Oklahoma City. He's done all of this while straddling two economic classes, which has given Taylor unique insights on how opportunity is unlocked for some and remains locked for others. Taylor, thank you so much for being here. Okay, so before we get going, you graduate from University Oklahoma, NCAA softball champions yet again this year. Okay. So I have a daughter who's almost 13, and she dreams of being a college softball or softball or softball, or, I mean, preferably D1. And she's like, Oklahoma, Texas, she wants to go to UCLA. So she's like, Oh, good. But anyway, congratulations.


Taylor Doe  03:51

Well, thank you. It's actually the softball where they play the World Series is literally right up the street from my house. So like, I can kind of see the lights going. And those games are just so much fun. Yeah, I went to I went to the University of Oklahoma and I actually played women's sports at ODU. It was not softball is basketball. So I played Oh, you women's basketball. They practice against guys, a scout team and so for three seasons I practiced against the Oh, you women's basketball team.


Dia Bondi  04:20

Oh, that's so cool. I have to say I did not grow up playing group sports. I was at my aunt owned did ballet studio. And so I spent most of my time in a dance studio. Now as an adult. I'm sort of a solo sports queen. You know, my husband and I did some obstacle horse racing and I've always been really started my career in fitness actually. But now that I'm a softball, Mom, it's a whole new world. It is. And I had no idea how fast softball is and it is a growing growing sport. Yeah,


Taylor Doe  04:47

I get emotional. I honestly get emotional watching the World Series like just the hype, the energy. I mean, it's so special. And


Dia Bondi  04:55

let's be real, the plays are kind of crazy. My favorite thing is to watch all those plays over In slow motion ESPN W does a pretty good job of like reposting stuff.


Taylor Doe  05:04

Yeah, I mean, these are like athletes, athletes, like in real life, it's so it's so much fun to watch.


Dia Bondi  05:09

It's so good. I just read an article that the NCAA did softball got more viewers than men's baseball and has been platform by ESPN full stadium all the time. And we know it's full stadium for athletes, I've done a fair bit of work in the Olympic world, in my communications work, and that full stadium has an impact on athletic performance, more world records are broken in full stadium than not full stadium. So it is it's the sport is going to continue to advance the more people have their eyes on it.


Taylor Doe  05:40

Yes, I love it. I'm for it.


Dia Bondi  05:42

I know I I stand on the sidelines at practice. And I'm like, I look at this field of my daughter plays in an academy that has, you know, all the girls that are like, 12, you 14 Year 16 You all practice together, or their practices overlap on the same field. And I look out of that field. And I'm like, This isn't our next generation of leadership in the world is what these girls are. For sure.


Taylor Doe  06:01

I love I love team sports, you said that you didn't grow up playing, I grew up playing soccer and basketball and just the things that I learned through those sports. I mean, I could look back and tell story after story, absolutely moments that grew me into the leader that I am today. So


Dia Bondi  06:16

right and we're gonna talk, we're gonna talk about that. I wonder if sports experiences and the networks that people build in sports, become and then moments for them. And we're going to talk about and then moments today. So let's get into it. So for folks who are listening, I found you tailor or tea dough I like I like a good nickname. As you know, I found you from your TED Talk, titled how people get the good jobs. And I'm having you on today to discuss and share your ideas on what you coined. And then moments. Now our audience is a group of really high achieving people and professionals, you know, often studying the lives and stories of the leaders and of leaders and high impact people around them. Either people they can reach out and touch or people that they can admire, admire, and sort of be mentees of from a distance. So these folks, you know, you listeners, you are folks who take a really a really like strong level of accountability and responsibility and work super duper hard. And too often, it's easy for us as ambitious professionals as high achievers as a plus students, you know, as people who want to have an impact, to overlook how much of our success and the success of others that we admire comes from the people around them. We are not self made, you know, the helpers are here to help. And today I wanted to sort of expose, you know, and shed some light on how much nobody is self made. And that when we acknowledge that we can actually lift people up, we can lift people around us up and we can actually be lifted up by others. I want to challenge sort of the myth and the narrative that we have in the United States anyway, which is, you know, the myth of the self made person and with a very fraught relationship, because while we, we, you know, reward and exalt individuality, in our culture and personal accomplishment. We also that can also point to and encourage burnout, and cultivate a notion that we do everything alone. And it's not true. So let's get into it. Taylor, I'm so glad to have you here today.


Taylor Doe  08:31

Dia, thank you for having me on. I'm excited. Awesome. A fan. I'm a fan of the podcast


Dia Bondi  08:35

Already! That that didn't take long.


Taylor Doe  08:39

I've listened to some episodes, I'm here.


Dia Bondi  08:42

So I've prepared a few questions. But you know, we're gonna see where this goes. And maybe we can just let people know a little bit about who you are. So tell us who you are. And what really is on your mind these days. What's got your attention?


Taylor Doe  08:56

Yes, my name is Taylor Doe. And as Dia said, I have a nickname I go by T. Doe. I got that nickname. And I think maybe the fifth grade. And I graduated high school with people who like didn't know my real name, it was just Tito so it's kind of something that has just stuck. I'm an entrepreneur and creator of and then moments and I'm also an avid water burger fan. So for people in kind of Texas, Oklahoma area, it's just a fast food joint that serves burgers and it's one of my favorites.


Dia Bondi  09:28

Never once if I had a water burger, but I have heard I've gotten a mouth Have you heard of it? I have from other people about about how you know it's like water burger. In and out water burger in and out. So you're familiar.  Yeah, I am because we're in California. We I don't think I have I don't think I have a water burger within you know, an hour drive from here. So talk a little a little bit about what's got your attention right now. What do you you know, I don't know what's, what are you working on? What's on your mind?


Taylor Doe  09:56

Then what's on my mind right now is The idea in the power of storytelling, that's something that I've really been fascinated with in kind of breaking it down a little bit farther is kind of this idea of opportunity in America, a kind of what you had just kind of alluded to was, we live in this land of opportunities is sometimes what America is called. And so I've really been like challenging that that story and that narrative of kind of that rugged individualism that you talked about in the beginning. And really, I'm really fascinated with the nuance of how people get to where they're at. So I spend a lot of time honestly, just asking a lot of questions of people, how they get to where they're at the nuance of story is kind of digging and unpacking, similar to what you do on this podcast, which I think is really great. But I'm fascinated and interested in nuance in the details of people's lives


Dia Bondi  10:49

Beautiful. And I know that you're involved, you're involved, you know, professionally in this world of uncovering, and then moments and helping people share their story and sort of break down this myth of the self made, you know, person. But also you do some work in your communities in Oklahoma, is that true, and maybe you can just give a little context around what you do with youth in your community.


Taylor Doe  11:09

Yeah. So several years ago, I worked for an energy company out here in Oklahoma, doing community outreach for them. And they gave me the opportunity to work in elementary schools in northeast Oklahoma City here. And I would go in weekly and do school wide assemblies. And it was kind of a hype assembly, we talked about a positive word of the month that we'd have we had, we call it the hot seat. And so we had the Hot Seat crew, which was our sixth grade leadership development, we'd put a microphone in their hand and allowed them to speak in front of the students and do all that. So we had a great time doing that. But that allowed me and gave me a really great platform on the east side of Oklahoma City to build relationships with students to build relationships with teachers and families. So we're hosting movie nights and bike rides, and just all of this stuff around community and relationship building that I'm super passionate about. And once I stopped working in schools, I just kind of continued those relationships, I've had built those relationships over the years and in been invited to the cookout in, in baby babies getting born and weddings, and funerals and all that stuff. And so I'd have just built like really genuine relationships with people. And so I've just kind of stuck around and had a chance to be able to mentor and be mentored, and just want to be a good neighbor. So that's where I currently am.


Dia Bondi  12:26

So talk about help us understand what is this thing you've coined, and and then moment?


Taylor Doe  12:32

Yeah, so when and then moment are kind of the seemingly overlooked moments in life that actually help people succeed. And so when sharing our stories of success, we would kind of typically hit the high points, you know, I grew up in Oklahoma, and then I went to the University of Oklahoma, and then I got this good job at this energy company. But we often leave out kind of the details of people who have helped us along the way. And so in my story, you know, I grew up in Oklahoma, and then went to college. Well, I went to OU, mainly because I was interested, but also because my parents could afford for me to go there. And so I leave that part out of, of the story. And then, and then I say, and then I got this good job at this energy company. Well, what I leave out and what's kind of hidden behind that, and then transition is that my college roommate at the time, his name was Daniel, his mom was senior vice president of HR at that energy company. And she helped unlock this opportunity made an introduction for me to get an internship, which turned into a full time job, and I really love that job. But when we talk about and then moments, it's that transition where that really hides the details of how people get to where they're at. People who unlock knowledge, resources and opportunity for us.


Dia Bondi  13:48

Fantastic. I mean, I like it gives me chills to think about the ways in which I can talk about the and then moments that were, for example, you know, four years ago, I launched this project as like an auctioneer is going to be a book soon. And there were a lot of and ends that could very easily leave out like why those and dens were possible. And it's not because I could hit heroically and individually lift a building and you know, or scale a building in a single bound it was because Sylvie Balu emailed me and said, Hey, I heard you doing this thing. Can you come over to Dropbox and do it with us is because somebody said, Hey, I'd like to platform that in this way. It's somebody else's? Uh, yes, absolutely. Like, it's, it is the people, not necessarily always the actions that I took that made things move forward. I mean, I had to have them. I needed to know what I was about. I needed to be prepared to receive what people were offering me. I needed to have the courage to ask, but I also none of it happened without a fabric of people and communities around me. So I'm just curious, you use this term keys. Can you talk about how what the relationship is between our and love and then moments and the keys that we carry?


Taylor Doe  14:59

Yeah. Uh, so even kind of thank you first, thanks for sharing part of your story there. I'm so fascinated about people's and then so I like always listen for like little clues and hints. But I introduced kind of the idea in the thought that came about as I was doing these interviews was a question, which interviews I'm sorry. So I did interviews. I've interviewed a ton of people around there. And then moments have asked them questions in interviewed and heard about their life stories and the life details and through those interviews have kind of grabbed these kind of pieces. So as I was doing these interviews and hearing about these stories of success, another question arose, and it was, what happens when people don't have those types of relationships to unlock those opportunities that that I've had, and that other people that I've interviewed have, like, it seemed like there was this idea of locked opportunities, an unlocked opportunities, and that came through the form of relationships. And so in the talk, I kind of give an example of a key being a person who can unlock that opportunity. And the reality is in America, we're born with drastically different amounts of keys of of where you live in things that you didn't even choose, I didn't choose my parents, I didn't choose the zip code I was born into. Yet, there were keys that came to me in a way that I didn't earn. So that was kind of a little bit of what I got into of kind of, I think that's where inequality stems from, and in a few other things that we can get into if you want, but that's the idea of the keys of unlocking opportunity for others in our lives.


Dia Bondi  16:38

So keys aren't necessarily people, they're all kinds of opportunities we have based on, you know, what are what are set of keys that are handed to us, you know, when we're born, and I'm guessing, you know, that we can accumulate keys, right, by by having the willingness to step into other communities to say yes to invitations to noticing new communities and people in our network and recognizing them as keys in our lives. But what prevents or I guess, like, once I have those keys, what do I do with them?


Taylor Doe  17:13

Hmm, good question. There's a few different ways to think about this, I think one would be my challenge to those who have lots of keys who are very relationally connected, who maybe grew up in certain communities, who are part of certain networks, is to give those keys away, give opportunities away to people who are in your natural circle, I think we're automatically kind of doing that anyway, you know, depending on your view on life, but naturally, we kind of move around and make introductions for people and unlock opportunity, give people chances. And my challenge in the TED talk in the TEDx talk was to invite people to give more keys away. And it's kind of this idea that we live in a society for some reason that believes that it's a zero sum game, with our keys that if we give too many keys away, we could get to zero, where you kind of hinted at it, it's actually the exact opposite opportunity in America is compounding. So when I went and worked at this energy company, I got all of these new keys of people that I worked with, and then people started going to work for other companies. And those keys kind of spread out. And then I would get a call, Hey, come over here and do this. And now moving into a new network, which has more keys. And so it's actually the exact opposite of a zero sum game opportunity is compounding in America.


Dia Bondi  18:31

It's so interesting that you kind of flipped the focus. My, my, my question was, you know, once I'm in a new context, there's an opportunity to, you know, gain keys, you know, if I'm the one that doesn't have them, you know, and you're like, Yeah, but let's actually flip it and ask if you have them, what are you gonna do with them? I mean, recognizing there's kind of like a moment where you might, okay, this is getting kind of meta, but there's a moment where I might expand my network in a particular way, by entering a new role in an organization by participating in a new community by engaging in a particular shared activity with other peers or folks that are not like me, you know, those are opportunities to, you know, see this new group of folks, as a as a set of keys that I actually can use the word use, I can use, but at the same time, it's totally like, every one of those relationships, every one of those networks, those folks have are a key for me. And those folks have their own key ring with their own set of keys. So there's kind of like this moment of recognizing that if you're one who knows you have keys, what are you going to do with them? You know, this show is called Lead with who you are, and we talk a lot about, you know, the power of leading with who you are, and that is really related to like, you know, understanding what kind of impact you want to have in the world, and recognizing how many keys we each have on our own Hearing and being generous with loaning them out is huge in a way that is aligned with our own values and not being stingy about it. Did you know there's some new research that came out of came out of Stanford? I think it's in the psychology department. I'll link it in the in the show notes, a woman wrote a piece called Happy to help. That's sort of the main headline, it has a sub header. But basically, what she did is a body of research that show that people want to help more than you want to ask.


Taylor Doe  20:31

So good, I think so the things that are coming to mind as as you say, that is, since we are talking to leaders and high achievers and people who want to do good in the world. I think there's nuance and you can only talk, as you know, you've you've done a TEDx talk is, or did you do a TED talk or TEDx talks? Yeah, okay. There's only, there's so much nuance. So you in the TEDx talk, you can only talk about so much as a 15 minute talk. So that's why I love kind of having this space to be able to kind of break it down and wrestle with some wrestle with some ideas. And so the idea of giving a key is one thing, so you unlock an opportunity. And then the other thing I think about as we're thinking about leadership, and creating environments and cultures, where people thrive, is, once someone has a key and steps through a door as a leader, what environment have you created within your organization for those people to foster, or to grow and thrive, right? Because I've seen in certain organizations, even the one I was in, we gave a key to someone, we gave a few keys to some people who were coming out of the incarceration system. And that was great. And they got into the organization, and they, in the people in our organization didn't understand the context for what we're trying to do. And it actually ended up. Not good at the end. Sure. So it's like, there are people who are like, Man, I want to give this opportunity, but don't really think through all the nuance of coaching and helping, or maybe there's a culture within your organization, that people from the outside don't really understand. You know, one example was


Dia Bondi  22:02

interesting, I'm sorry, can I just jump in? Okay, like it just hitting me that, you know, when we as maybe, you know, ambitious folks that have access to so many of our, you know, we have a huge key ring, and we have access to so many other people's key rings that we can't just loan out keys sort of irresponsibly. It's kind of what you're saying. Like, we have to kind of take responsibility and recognize the bigness of the gifts that we give to others. And yeah, and that they can actually use it successfully is different than can they just have it.


Taylor Doe  22:31

Yeah, totally. In I want to live in a world where I don't have to be as calculated giving out my keys, like I share live in work in environments where we're kind to others, we have a teaching and learning atmosphere that allows people who are new to this environment to actually thrive and understand kind of the unspoken rules, yes, of that. And so, for example, at that company, they were like, hey, you need to go meet with Tito, the guys that, you know, we gave keys to. And so I would meet with this guy named Daniel once a week. And he would show it Thursdays at two o'clock. And this guy would show up, Dana would show up every Thursday at two o'clock on the dot, okay? And so maybe like the third or fourth fourth week, I turned my second monitor around, right? Because I'm a to monitor guy. I turn the monitor around, said, Hey, man, you show up on time every week, you just never let me know, like, on the calendar, he's like, What are you talking about? I was like, I send you a calendar invite. And you can accept or deny the invite, or even change the time to work for us, like, do that is awesome. So I'm like, Yeah, I know, you're like you help with fleet. So your schedule is kind of all changed. Like, I'm happy to work around that you can press propose a new time. And like, throw that back at me. And you like blew his mind in that moment. Yeah, exactly. And so But the flip side of that is he had a boss who was not understanding of the culture and context of where he came from, where calendar invites weren't a thing until he got to this company. And so he got reprimanded for this thing that he didn't really even know about. And so I'm interested in helping organizations kind of create and foster and see people for them for their full selves, be gracious, and create an environment where learning is great. And teaching is in kind of that same boat.


Dia Bondi  24:22

Yeah, so Okay, so if folks, you know, founders, leaders who are listening now embedded professionals, people who want to manage others later, folks who want to split, they want to just make a key cannon and shoot it out the window of their office building. You know,


Taylor Doe  24:36

I've never heard key cannon,


Dia Bondi  24:38

but you don't I mean, is packed is loaded up with keys just like fired everywhere. So if you're one who's like, I want to manage others to, you know, provide opportunities for people. I so often hear recruiters say, you know, my best part of my job is extending an offer to somebody and just changing their life, you know, and there's that key moment and then there's all the nuanced stuff that has happens afterward. So, you know, it's a long term commitment, right for us as as leaders to make it possible to, you know, for folks to be to continue to teach, like you said, teaching and learning as it's just, it can't just be, you have to be rewriting all the time. So, as we do that, like what are the questions as leaders, we need to be asking of the people for whom we may be lending our teas.


Taylor Doe  25:24

Let me take one step back, if you'd let me, let something that I stand with Let's dance, a thing that I think about a lot is practice reps, and what prepares people for the moment. And so I grew up in an environment, upper middle class environment where I got a ton of practice reps before the opportunity presented itself. And so, for example, when I got this interview at this at the good job right after college, I was I was nervous, but I met with this guy named Greg. And I hadn't met Greg before, but I've met 1000. Greg's before, if you know what I mean, right? Yes. And so I came in,


Dia Bondi  26:07

is an archetype. Was it like we can we can pick Greg out of a lineup for sure. Okay,


Taylor Doe  26:11

exactly. I've met Greg before, but I hadn't met Greg, if you know what I mean. So I go in, I'm a little bit more comfortable. I know the jokes that will land, he feels comfortable to me, because I'd had practice reps leading up to this, right. My mom's a doctor, we lived in a neighborhood where there were other kind of influential people. And people have kind of maybe a quote unquote, higher status or whatever people want to label that. And so I was very, I'm very comfortable around authority in people in those positions. So when I, when I got there, I had had 1000 Practice reps to be able to capitalize on that moment. And what I see is that there's actually a deficiency in practice reps for certain communities, in across our country, and even in Oklahoma City, that you just haven't got practice reps to know what you're looking for, to be able to capitalize on this moment. So what we also see in what you're saying is when you create this cannon on top of your building, right, and you shoot these keys out, you also have to have the understanding and the humility and the empathy to say, Man, there might be people who catch these keys at the bottom of our building, that didn't have the same amount of practice reps as other people who might be coming through our doors. And that's where we disqualify people really quickly. And actually miss a lot of talent is because we have that that disposition if things don't kind of fit nicely,


Dia Bondi  27:31

that's beautiful. I love this I love you know, I really practically I'm like, then the question, one of the questions, I started with the question of like, alright, for leaders who are shooting keys out of their key cannon, you know, what, like, how do we help people successful be successful? What the question then is like, what reps can we design for you, that let you gain make mistakes and gain practice and muscle memory? Before the big stakes high stakes show moment? You know, where do we create opportunities for people to listen in on meetings that are critical to learn the language so that they're not named, you know, Dr. Stacy Blake Brown, she's Stacy Blake Brown. She's a mentorship expert and a professor in this space. And she talks about not being pegged as the one not knowing well as leaders, we can help people not being pegged as the one not knowing by giving them reps by just participating quiet, listening quietly in high stakes meetings with that they will then be participating in later so that they can learn that language and never be pegged as the one not knowing there are opportunities for us to get practice reps in where if we break something, it's okay. Such that when it's time to actually balance the plates that are spinning, you know, they might get chipped but not completely broken and turning into exactly as you point to a disqualifying event.


Taylor Doe  28:55

Yep. And so I'll even add a word on in front of that is low stakes, practice reps, right? The low stakes where it's okay to fail, because we all do, but you just gotta practice rep. And now you'll know when it comes. We kind of started off in had a little small talk about oh, you women's softball, and I think about this analogy, a little bit of batting cages when I think about practice, right? So imagine kind of two batting cages being next to each other and batting cage one the balls are spitting out, you know, every 10 to 15 seconds. And then batting cage number two, the balls are spitting out every minute. Right? I grew up in batting cage number one where I get to feel the grip of the bat, I get to swing I get to I get to do all those things. I know the consistency of these opportunities that are kind of coming my way. And then I work with students and know families and people who are in batting cage number two, and when you live in batting cage number two, you grip up on the bat and swing as hard as you can. When a pitch comes in. As you know with your with your daughter playing sports. That's not a good strategy. You know you don't hit home runs when you are trying to knock this thing


Dia Bondi  30:03

out to hurt yourself, it's actually a good way to become a disqualifying event.


Taylor Doe  30:07

Exactly. But when I live in that world of not knowing when the next opportunity is going to come when that next pitch is going to come, I have to live that way. And so people who are in batting cage one will look over the batting cage to and be like, Why is this person swinging so hard? You know, it's like, even one of the micro nuances of this idea is the idea of the coffee meeting, right? I don't know how many coffee meetings you've had. But that's a good time to get to know people and do all of that. Well, people who live in batting cage to feel like at a coffee meeting, they need to present the ask right then because I don't know the next time I'm gonna meet with Dr. Bondi, right? She is a go getter, all this stuff. And as soon as you make the ask, it changes things. Now, there's other nuance to this of ask tell me about what the ask is, it might be for a job opportunity, it might be to invest in my startup idea, it might be to give me an opportunity to try something that I haven't haven't tried before. Now a person who grew up grew up in batting cage one, I know that I don't need to make the ask at our first meeting, because I have other opportunities down the road. So I get to foster a relationship together before I need to make that ask,


Dia Bondi  31:19

are you ready? Okay, so I'm on, you want to fight Taylor, let's fight. So. So I get that. And, you know, for folks who are so this is a little bit of a tangent around asking, like, I think we we can also teach other people about what kinds of requests they might make outside of the really big one. You know, like, there is a massive gradient, you know, you don't have to at that first coffee meeting asked for the million dollar investment. But what other what other strategic asks might we make? Or might we help the people who have received a key from our key cannon make that helps them grow the muscle, they need to step into batting cage, too. So you know, when we think about, you know, I am in the world, you know, my forthcoming book, I'm in the world and helping people ask for more and get it. But more doesn't always mean the biggest, the biggest thing that is at the end of the road, if you're going to make 1000 Little asks along your way. But when you make those little asks, compared to the big ask, we want to make sure you're not leaving any opportunity on the table. So sure, maybe at that first coffee, it's not. It's that first coffee, it's not, you know, can I have a million dollars investment in my in my dog washing startup, but instead, it's, you know, Can I ride along with you, you know, in the day and get exposure to how you talk about business in the world? Can I Will you teach me something, asking someone to teach you something is a huge way to spend time deepen connection, and gain something that has a lasting impact. And so I think, you know, this idea of giving out a key and being really mindful and mentoring other people on how to how all the things they can ask for outside of the, you know, the biggest one along their path is a really critical dance that those two, you know, those are two sides of the coin, that we as leaders can mentor others, when they're learning to understand how to get the most out of a key they've been given.


Taylor Doe  33:28

That's, that's so good. And in, and I'll just will echo and in maybe add to that. I think in specific communities, when you when you sit with someone of that importance, or who has opportunity, that desire to ask right then not knowing when that next meeting is coming, I think is something that we economically have forced people into, right because is your one chance being able to play that yes, being able to play the slow game is a privilege,


Dia Bondi  33:58

because I have a beautiful articulation.


Taylor Doe  34:02

Being able to play the slow game is a privilege because you have time in space in margin, to not be able to ask for the big thing or anything for an extended amount of time.


Dia Bondi  34:13

So does that mean that us as leaders as as, as key holders, us as you know, key givers? Do we, you know, do we need to practice deep empathy, Unrich, recognizing how much the level of relaxation that we might have access access to and lack of urgency the privileges have come with a lack of urgency is not something that somebody across the coffee table might be experiencing? is really critical. And, you know, I don't know where to go with that. Except that I think I can pick


Taylor Doe  34:48

up because you're setting me up is Go is I think in order to get to that radical self humility and empathy is to understand your story. And so that's Why I am introducing this concept called andin moments is because I want you to identify the people in the points in your story that allowed you to be where you're at today. And so I think there's naturally a level of humility that comes with that to say, okay, it was my, you know, second grade teacher who unlocked this, it was my basketball coach who unlocked this, it was my fraternity brothers mom who unlock this. And because these people have done this for me, I want to do this for others. Yes,


Dia Bondi  35:30

you're saying that, like when we get into relationship with our own story, we can tap in empathy that lets us slow down. And maybe notice what an unlock we can be for someone else,


Taylor Doe  35:40

that's 1000 person


Dia Bondi  35:42

on their terms, in their context, in their set of understandings in their right, where they were meeting them where they are,


Taylor Doe  35:52

in the challenges and the reality is, we still live in a society a society that is segregated both by class and by race. But another way to put that is we're segregated by people who have lots of keys, live in work around people who have lots of keys, and people with few keys, live around and work with people with few keys. And so we kind of opportunity is siloed in that way. And so really what my goal in life is, is to bridge those silos, and have that conversation and invite people into that conversation, to say, just look around, you're in this bubble, you're in this ecosystem, where yes, it's normal for so and so to make an introduction and all this that is not normal for other communities in our city. And if we decide to open this up, I think more people will thrive.


Dia Bondi  36:43

Okay, so help me flex my muscle. And I don't know if this will make this make it into the final final episode. But, you know, I walk around with a lot of I just posted last week about like, being specific with the people that have been keys for you, you're giving me new language, I didn't say it this way, is really, you know, it's really important, not just say, like, Thanks for your help, but to be really specific about the things that people may be giving away that were unlocked. For you that seemed like table stakes for them, like feeding that. Will you Sorry, you kind of cut out well, you know, that's okay, look, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm, uh, I do a lot of coaching. So you just dropped for folks who are not who are not watching this, this is an audio only podcast, you dropped your eyes Taylor when I was sharing that. And I was like, That hit something for you. Just this idea, this idea that, you know, we, the more we tell the people who have been unlocked for us very specifically, and the way they were an unlock for us, is, I think really important for them to let you let them know what kind of impact they've had on us. But also to I don't know, to be able to express gratitude in a way that feels more real and concrete. So, you know, I'm always wanting to go, okay, that person said helped me with something, they unlocked something for me, I want to say thank you, but I want to say fit thank you to them in a way that reflects back to them what specifically about the way that they helped me it was an unlock for me. So I'm so happy if you want to coach me on my end then moments, what are the questions that you ask the leaders that you do and you know, the you facilitate in your workshops? How do I recognize maybe the buried you know, the buried players? In my, in my and then moments? Yeah, because I'm old and I'm almost 50 There have been a lot of them.


Taylor Doe  38:36

Yes, I mean, I have a lot as well. The, the thing that I love I've loved about and then moments and as you know, you've heard in one of your podcasts you brought a group of women together and kind of pitched your, your idea of ask like an auctioneer, I think that's really great. I've done I've done similar Right, I've kind of thrown out and then moments and kind of get feedback and it's been really humbling to see how fast people pick up on this. So it's really not that much convincing like people can put together like okay, these these were the moments that kind of helped unlock I challenged them to take a deeper step. So there's questions even around transportation Tell me a little bit about how you got your first car you know that on your access to


Dia Bondi  39:21

Taylor do it from let help me do me okay me here in the front row Me me me. So welcome


Taylor Doe  39:27

to the and then moments podcast. Glad to have dia on here and


Dia Bondi  39:33

100% so glad to be here Taylor and you are like they're you know, stir notes don't needs to remain on turn. So


Taylor Doe  39:40

whenever you're curious about Yes, thank you for being authentic about your story. I'd love to hear just a little bit about maybe one of your your big successes that you classify as a success. What was that? And tell me a little bit about the details of it. Oh, you want to you want to start even way Like, what was your first job?


Dia Bondi  40:01

No, I, I can't I got one. You got one. Okay, this one this is this one's kind of bougie. Okay? And maybe it's too obvious I don't know, I'm feeling I'm having like things I'm having and then moment anxiety.


Taylor Doe  40:14

They're giving me so many new vocab so much new vocabulary around this concept.


Dia Bondi  40:19

Is this the right answer? I don't know if it's the right answer. I mean, I'm not immune, you know, to the thing I know, which is that adults don't like to be wrong. So okay. So I would say that one of the most compelling sort of, I call it like a peak moment in my life. And I don't know, apologies, folks who are listening, if you've heard this story from me before, but I remember I don't know how old I was, I was in my early 20s. And, you know, I grew up in a small town, north of the Golden Gate. And, you know, my parents and everyone around Oh, there are small business owners, my aunt owned a ballet school, my, you know, my grandfather owned an insurance company and insured the local car dealer and the restaurants and like that, in the wine country, and I, my dad had a construction company. And I really knew I wanted to live a life outside of, you know, the 20 mile radius from our address. And I wanted, you know, deeply connected experiences, I wanted adventure, and I wanted to travel. And I wanted to do it on somebody else's nickel, because I just, I couldn't imagine having to wait to save up to go, I wanted to be integrated, and then what I was doing as part of my everyday work. And I remember the first time I went abroad for the communications work I was doing at that time. And I went to, I got to go to Hong Kong. And I remember, I flew in, and I got picked up in a black car service, you know, but that wasn't even it. I got checked in to the JW Marriott, maybe folks who are listening have stayed there. And I remember dropping my bags off and I magically disappeared, I got the key to my room and went up to the consilience floor and opened this little hotel room and I went, I don't remember what time of day it was. But I distinctly remember walking toward the window, and like pulling the curtains back and looking out over the Hong Kong skyline. And I was like, Oh, my God. It's happening. And I, and oh, my God, I'm getting choked up talking about it. You don't even asking me about my person, but I'm going to share it anyway. Because actually, when I started telling you this, I thought it was one person. But now in recounting the story, I'm recognizing it's actually someone else. As I remember, I remember after looking out of the skyline and going like, Oh, my God, I get to do this. I'm here. You know, it's happening. I went to my laptop and I sent a gratitude email to the chair of my, I was an economics major. Okay, and I'm in, I'm in, I was an international economics major, I had to do econometrics, you guys, I had to figure out what p hat was. And now you know, I'm in the world of communications, which is so relational, it doesn't care about, it doesn't care about math. One bit, not one bit, I remember sending a note to our Chair of our tiny little Economics Department at this sort of, you know, middle grade university that I went to saying, I'm here emailing you from Hong Kong. And this could not have happened without you. And he had nothing to do with getting me there directly.


Taylor Doe  43:53

And at the same time, I'd say he has everything to do with it. 100. In preparation, I want to ask a nuanced question. You flew to Hong Kong, what was your and then moment for understanding how an airport works? You knew how to navigate the airport, you knew how to get to a gate, you knew how to maybe not maybe this was your first time to ever fly? That was


Dia Bondi  44:14

that was I would say right there. That was a key I was born with, you know, I can't name my and then moment for that. And that is a beautiful example of what you were talking about before. I grew up in that batting cage.


Taylor Doe  44:29

And so those are kind of the the nuances I think about of you know, I've been able to fly with people for the first time. And that's a good example of like, where grace and empathy comes of like, what is a gate? What is that terminal? What is a one of my guys flew for the for one of my mentees flew for the first time at 18. And I designed this thing called Tito's first flight. And it has all the terminology there's probably like 10 words there right like that, that you're going to hear when you get to this airport because I'm not going to be with you, I want to go on your first trip, but I can't make it. Here are the 10 words that you're going to hear. And this is what it means, right? Like what is baggage claim. And all of these words where it's like, man, if if you don't go with someone who is a coach, and who has empathy and all of that, the airport can be really scary. And you can translate the airport to your business environment today. Right? That's just an analogy for your work environment, for where you work. And so if we are going to be people who genuinely care for others, you're going to think about the signage that's on your building, you're going to think about the initial emails that you send out. I mean, just all of the, the nuance that helps people understand and be acclimated to the culture that you've created. It's really interesting to kind of think about those nuances.


Dia Bondi  45:47

So you making that legend for that kiddo. You want to talk about leading with who you are.


Taylor Doe  45:56

And so what I what I love about your story is we could backtrack, all of that, right? How did you get that job? What was, you know, was it a cold, cold resume? Well, what was on your resume that made you look good? You know, it's like, so it's been awesome to unpack these stories. The two things that I'll say is one I want to thank you for, for sharing that. What I found in all of these interviews, is that it it takes vulnerability to share this stuff, right? I'm interviewing people who say, hey, my parents gave us $10,000 as a down payment on our house, and he literally you, Tito, and my parents and my wife are the only people who know about that. The only people yet this person might be the same person that says, Hey, kid, you need to work hard and pull yourself up by your bootstraps, right? It's like, Well, you haven't really acknowledged these other things that are propped you up the most minut things that are there. I. So what I found is vulnerability, Foster's vulnerability, right. And that's Brene Brown all day of as Pete What I've seen is, as people have raised their hand in these seminars, and when I get to speak, and they share their and then moments, it encourages other people to share theirs because it says, Hey, you're safe here to share those stories.


Dia Bondi  47:09

You're safe here to share that you've not done it on your own.


Taylor Doe  47:13

Exactly. Because because there's a fear and a real shame. Shame has bubbled to the top of these interviews that said, I felt like an impostor because my dad called the Governor and I, and I got an internship on the hill. I feel a shame because my roommates mom was senior vice president, and that's how I got here. You know, there are people are walking around with a lot of shame, tied with their stories of opportunity. And what I'm trying to invite people into is to say, Hey, I hear you, I come from that world. It's okay, but what are we going to do with it right now. And I need you to tell your full story, because I have kids out here in the schools and in the streets, and in my neighborhood, who think that it's just hard work and grit because that's what the American Dream has said. And that's just not true.


Dia Bondi  48:03

So what is your invitation to us who are listening today?


Taylor Doe  48:09

My biggest invitation is to really take time in sit with your story. Like I know that people catch on to and then really quick, and they'll think of one or two names. But if you really sit down in process, the stories of your kind of your life story and attach people to that. I really invite people to take a little bit more time than just kind of the initial understanding of what an and then moment is. On top of that I was literally at dinner last night. I got to speak this morning at the governor's mansion about and in moments it was is a really great time. There's kind of a speaker's dinner last night. And this lady had seen the TED talk was like, last like last week, my husband and I talk through our and then moments, and I realized that there are and then moments from three generations ago. That is the reason why I'm in my seat in the Department of Human Services in Oklahoma. She had like literally gone back. And so we hadn't gotten into it in this, this episode. But there's generational and in moments. And I kind of share that in my TEDx Talk is I found the name of my grandpa's big and then moment in the 1940 census. And what's really cool is that someone saw the TED Talk and did some research. And I got to talk to the family member of my grandpa's hand in moment is really cool, kind of full circle moment for me. But if we take time, the invitation is to really deep dive into your own story.


Dia Bondi  49:42

To know what can people do with you? Where can they find you?


Taylor Doe  49:46

I am on the Instagram. I'm on LinkedIn, in website, www.andthenmoments.com like Dia said, there is a TEDx talk I would love for you to watch that and then reach out share your And then moments with me, I love hearing stories. And I'm I'm honestly pretty early on in this journey. So I don't have a lot of content out around the topic yet I have kind of this scheduled out, I'm kind of in the beginning stages of really inviting people into this, I would say deep work. So I'm excited about excited about doing that.


Dia Bondi  50:21

And to wrap. What does it mean for you to lead with who you are?


Taylor Doe  50:27

I think it is all that we talked about today. I think it's genuinely seeing people for who they are in genuinely caring. I think people have a good, especially kids and I've worked around students for a long time, they have a good BS meter of if you truly care, or if you're just trying to use people to get more keys people know. And so me being my, my true self is is my authenticity and storytelling. So as I'm talking about my successes and the places that I go, I want to be truly authentic and let people know that Taylor doe didn't do this by himself. I don't have kids yet. But they will know the names of, of my and in moments, they're not going to think Dad did this all by himself. They're going to know the names of these people. And so I just once again, just want to live authentically.


Dia Bondi  51:23

Taylor, thanks so much for being on Lead With Who You Are. Thank you so much. Lead With Who You Are is a production of Dia Bondi Communications and is scored mixed and produced by Arthur Leon Adams the third, have a question or an inquiry. Reach out to us at hello@diabondi.com. You can like share, rate and subscribe at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your favorite shows. Go to diabondi.com for the show notes to find our tools, frameworks, content and programs to help you and your team speak powerfully and lead with who you are

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