Taboos, Truths and Tantrums: Speaking Courageously

Don’t confuse boldness with being a bulldozer.  On this episode, we talk with Rene Hue Lipton, an Advertising Executive and badass who’s harnessed her power to speak truth into any room and to confront whatever elephant is sitting there waiting to be called out.

Shes a force and a mentor voice you need to hear if you are taking on your own power and learning to wield it to create impact and carve a path for others to bring forward their most creative selves.

Rene is the founder of The Dame Collective and a bold voice in the world of advertising.  In this conversation, you’ll learn from her journey as to how she transformed her bold voice from one with an edge, to one with impact.  And, how her willingness to speak directly to what needs speaking about, has paved the way for other women and creatives to do the same. Regardless of her job, her role is to break the silence that keeps us stifled. 

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Don’t confuse boldness with being a bulldozer.  On this episode, we talk with Rene Hue Lipton, advertising executive and badass who’s harnessed her power to speak truth into any room and to confront whatever elephant is sitting there waiting to be called out.

Shes a force and a mentor voice you need to hear if you are taking on your own power and learning to wield it to create impact and carve a path for others to bring forward their most creative selves.

Rene is the founder of The Dame Collective and a bold voice in the world of advertising.  

In this conversation, you’ll learn from her journey how she transformed her bold voice from one with an edge, to one with impact.  And, how her willingness to speak directly to what needs speaking about, has paved the way for other women and creatives to do the same. Regardless of her job, her role is to break the silence that keeps us stifled. 

Check out The Dame Collective

Follow Rene on LinkedIn

Watch Rene’s Talk about Taboos

Follow the show on Instagram

Check out all things Dia Bondi here.

Dia Bondi  00:03

We have to decide to speak from that place that's aligned to who we really are. And you are so right. The more we hide, we spend our time figuring out and gaming out what we're not to be. And if we spend so much time figuring out what we're not to be we forget to develop and get in relationship with who we actually are.


Rene Huey-Lipton  00:21

We have to decide every time until it gets to the point where it becomes the muscle memory that the other crap used to be.


Dia Bondi  00:53

Hello, everyone, welcome to the Deobandi show a big, huge, ginormous podcast for your goals. I'm Deobandi and I'm here to help you speak powerfully as a tool to advance your leadership and yourself to ask for more and get it and resource your dreams. And we're here to bring you all kinds of mentor voices, strategies and approaches to doing just that so you can be successful and I'm joined as every time by my on air bestie ours early on Adams the third or baby a hi, hey, dia,


Arthur  01:23

how's it going? It feels like it's been a while it we haven't recorded a podcast in a while.


Dia Bondi  01:28

I know I'm we've been releasing them because we had them in the can but and here we are. And I'm super excited about today, because we're gonna have a guest that I like when I think about mentor voice. She's a mentor voice for me. I actually have never had a conversation with her face to face. I saw her on stage a handful of years ago, and I've held her like I've held her name and sort of internet stalked her in a very positive and friendly way for a couple of years. And this will be our first conversation we have with her. Yeah,


Arthur  01:54

I mean, it sounds like you're a fan.


Dia Bondi  01:56

I Yes. You know, and I'm not a fan, like fanning isn't really a thing that I do, although they're like a few folks. Like for whom I am a fan.


Arthur  02:07

You're a fan girl or something or, like you're just a fan.


Dia Bondi  02:10

I don't actually know what a Stan is.


Arthur  02:12

I don't know. It's a whole thing.


Dia Bondi  02:15

Okay, yeah, I'm officially I officially am like non culture. So so this last week, we did a marketing kind of strategy retreat. And the woman who helps us with marketing and programs is out here in California from Boston. And she made so many internet references like, oh, yeah, we could do this. We could do that. And I was like, What is all that stuff? And she says, she says, Oh, yeah, I don't. She's like, Oh, yeah, that's because I'm extremely on the internet and you dia are not extremely on the internet.


Arthur  02:47

remotely online personality. Yes. I've


Dia Bondi  02:50

been pretending that I know what Stan is for a really long time. And I literally just figured out what a goat is. And so sure, good.


Arthur  02:58

Right. Right, right. Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you off air about Stan.


Dia Bondi  03:03

Okay, I can't wait everybody. Next time you hear from me. I will be so wise about the Stan. Okay, so today for we talk to our fantastic guests who hit me so she hit me like a ton of bricks when she talked about taboos onstage at the 3% conference. And that's why I'm bring here onto the show today, how to be bold, a bold voice and be successful. Because I have noticed so many of the folks that I talked to are nervous about bringing their boldness forward because of the other b word which is backlash and I'm just super curious to talk to her about how she's managed to use her bold, courageous sort of boundary breaking voice with and and, you know, and maintain that maybe she hasn't maintained that like I just wanna have a conversation or her with her about that today, but I have other stupid things on my mind. You want to hear? Yeah, let's


Arthur  03:55

hear the dumb stuff.


Dia Bondi  03:56

What let us do like,


Arthur  03:58

what let us do I like um, it really depends on what I'm making.


Dia Bondi  04:02

Does it you Is there a particular lettuce you're into right now?


Arthur  04:06

I like you know mix salad greens and stuff for salad. Yeah, like container, whatever. Yeah. Um, and then for sandwiches it's nice to have like a full leaf you know if something like butter lettuce or deadly for something like that.


Dia Bondi  04:20

Oh, red leaf. Okay, that's I mean, okay. Yeah, I was like this morning and I was at my mom's house actually this morning and I was packing myself a lunch and I had I was making myself sandwich and I pulled out this head of butter lettuce, you know, you can get them sometimes that are already like they're, they're the roots in the soils pulled so they're like an organic head of lettuce that with lettuce and living lettuce. Yeah, I pulled that out. And I just I didn't think I had a preferred lettuce but I really realized I think I really I have a little bit of a preference. I like arugula. And I really like butter lettuce because I it's soft to chew but still has it has a crunchiness to Sure.


Arthur  04:59

Yeah, it's like It's like the good version of iceberg lettuce.


Dia Bondi  05:03

Sort of. Yeah, it's the blue is the Bougie version Iceberg lettuce.


Arthur  05:07

Yeah, maybe. Although I like iceberg lettuce when it's in one of those little salads you get like at a sushi restaurant.


Dia Bondi  05:14

Yeah, you know what I like? You know what I like? I like a good wedge salad. You know blue cheese. You don't have bacon but blue cheese bacon thing. Yeah, tomatoes with a like a quarter of a head of crunchy cold Iceberg lettuce. Ooh, that makes sense. Anyway, that was one thing I was like the whole drive down here from my mom's house to the studio. I was like, what like I just was noticing I'm so enjoying this kind of lettuce in this cell in this, this, the simple things are there that we can overlook in our lives that like we take for granted that like, Oh, I really like this. I really like that but like to actually drop in and be like, I am actually enjoying this right now. Because I made a choice that is totally like I really wanted that kind of a texture and I'm getting it and enjoying it.


Arthur  05:54

Right. I mean, so you heard it here. What do we call the fans of this show? I don't know. What do we call you folks? Huh? That's a you know, write in and tell us what you what you call yourselves. Okay, great, but I'm your butter lettuce Stan. Hey, hey, it's baby a just checking in to let you know that if you are a fan of what we're doing here on the Deobandi show, there are a bunch of really important ways that you can help support us. First of all the basics. You can like, subscribe, rate and review on your favorite podcast platform. You can also share us with your friends on social media, or hey, even the old fashioned way. Just tell somebody in person. If you have a question for dia or you want to give us some feedback, you can give us a call at 341-333-2997 and we might just play your voicemail on a future show.


Dia Bondi  06:49

Okay, let's let's talk about let's talk about Ronnie. Yeah, so a few years ago, I was at 3% conference, as folks have heard me talk about before we had the founder Kat Gordon on the show. And this her conference was dedicated is dedicated to elevating women and underrepresented folks in advertising generating advertising by the folks who are actually who are in the population not just made by the white male sis population anyway, so I went to this Pecha Kucha event Do you know Pecha Kucha is Pecha Kucha is a style of presenting where you have like I'm going to get these numbers wrong so somebody can correct me if you'd like but it's like seven slides or 12 slides or something and every two minutes the slide advances or every 20 seconds I don't know what the interval is. It advances and the producer invent advances it not the speaker and you have to just like keep up with what's happening and it's fun so I did three or four pitches in a row. I just went because I wanted to watch Pecha Kucha and and I saw and the one Pecha Kucha that really stuck with me and struck me really deeply was the hedgehog cuccia by our guest today Reni Huey lipped in and we're having her on the show today because I want to talk to her about what hit me so strongly when I sat in the audience for her session. She's a woman who is so bold and unapologetic. That's how I've experienced her so far, we'll see if it's, you know, if that's if that changes for me or broadens. And she was, she was on that day, sort of the shock jock of the stage. And her conversation was all about taboos. And there's a moment actually in her presentation where she discusses something that really stood out to me really hard, which is this, this moment, we're going to talk about our conversation with her, where she made a bold choice. And to me, you know, as a mentor voice, listen to her as a mentor voice. She's someone who can really inspire us as we go to say what's maybe unpopular or to make, to embrace who we are and someone who is really, you know, up for the challenge of, of running up against status quo. I was inspired by her boldness and her and her compassion at the very same time. And she's a leader, she's to give you some context of where she lives in her professional world. So she's a leader in the advertising industry. She's a founder of Dame collective and agency that sources creatives over 40 and is currently at the time of this recording, the Senior Vice President of insights at Morrow matchbox and most of all she's a woman I wanted all of you to hear from she is a self described strategist, storyteller extraordinaire and Problem Solver without compare. I have to say Randy, I'm so glad to have you here and I know you be a new and I've never met


Rene Huey-Lipton  09:54

No, but we've sold over you know, we talk on each other's you know, posts and all that sort of stuff? Yes,


Dia Bondi  10:01

we do. And I actually watched your, over the course of the pandemic, I watched your sort of daily five would do. Yeah, that were really, I loved them. And they're kind of in the theme. So for folks listening, I don't know if it was every day, but a handful of


Rene Huey-Lipton  10:16

times a day. 389 days, right?


Dia Bondi  10:18

You did it all in a row like that. Mm hmm. And you posted sort of a top five for the day. Can you tell our audience like what had this is wasn't even the conversation I was prepared to have with you. But like, you what, how did you start doing that? What was the instigator for that? And what was what were the what were the fives you were looking for?


Rene Huey-Lipton  10:37

Right? Well, I was. It came out of I was trying to make sense of everything that was going on. Right. And at the time, we were living my husband and I, and our youngest teen were living in a loft in downtown Seattle, so very sort of close together. And yes, we were talking about everything. Much to our teens, probably dismay, because just like, oh, please be quiet. But one day we were just talking about, yes, we're talking about it, but it's still hard to make sense of. So I was sitting at my desk a couple days later, and I thought I was just looking at all this shit that was going on. Right that Breanna Taylor. I mean, it's just everything. And I was like, Okay, I've got to start writing, I tend to sort of when I can't figure anything out, I tend to write. And so I said, Okay, I'm just going to do this thing, where the top five things are on my mind each day. Right, including, you know, gentlemen across the way would run shirtless on his, his little runner. But yeah, mostly it came to be around issues of social justice. And, of course, the presidency at the moment, and just sort of how fucked up the world was. But also trying to sort of just not make people aware, because people already aware but just kind of share my own feelings and vulnerabilities and issues about it. Because it was interesting. My daughter, like, sorry, my youngest at the time. And is this sometimes gets confusing, because they are transitioning at the moment. So my son had a tick tock at the moment of over 100,000 people. And they would come to me and say, I don't understand why people like this so much. And I'm like, well, quite, it's just because you're authentic. You just put yourself out there, not scripted, you're not trying to be anything. You're sharing what you're feeling at the moment. And I took that, you know, we often give the best advice to other people. So I took that, and I said, you know, this is this is what it is. And this is the tone I want. Right? That is sort of this. I'm a confused person, just like the rest of you. Let's put it all out there. And it's funny, you mentioned it, I'm actually turning into a book proposal, I want to turn it into a macro history, or a micro history of that moment in our time,


Dia Bondi  13:10

what I loved about your and these are my ways of describing it, how it hit me. And so apologies if it's not aligned to your intention, but the you know, what I loved about them is that they were this this sort of really beautiful combination of vulnerability and combativeness. Yeah, almost, at this, like, at the same time, they had like, a really wonderful, like thoughtful tantrum quality to them. And I just that really hit me because you both, like, put your point of view into them, and cash me out. I can't leave them like I actually have a point of view about this. They really hit me strong. But you put I felt that you put your point of view into them, but also didn't have a lot of like, these are all the answers in them at the same time. And it was just a wonderful. I look forward to them when they popped into my feed. And I think I didn't I'm not so bold on the internet. And so I think I probably didn't comment or give you feedback as often about how they hit me as I probably should have. But anyway, yeah, they really, that was really wonderful. And what I love about Yeah, well, what I love about what I love about that is it's kind of like that stuff that you put out there is really aligned to why I wanted to have you on the show as a gift to our listeners who you know, I've been a leadership communications coach for nearly two decades, I help you know, VC backed founders, and, and leaders in organizations speak powerfully as a strike point for their own leadership and as a way to advance their their goals and their ventures and you know, that has a lot of stuff attached to it like to be able to speak in a way that is aligned to who we are is a real courageous act. And it's never done right. Like it's just it's a process, but it's a commitment that when we commit to doing it, we can have more money pact. So, you're I met you because I was speaking also at 3% conference a handful of years ago and you did a Pecha Kucha


Rene Huey-Lipton  15:09

or suppose it betcha


Dia Bondi  15:11

it was the best, it was the best. And for folks listening like it was supposed to take, I don't know, seven minutes or 11 minutes, you know, the flies were advancing and very early on the inexperienced, you were like, Yeah, this is that what's happening and you just did your own thing, which I was like, I just I was sitting there sort of halfway back in that huge, beautifully lit auditorium going like, I must know this. So that was the first thing that hit me. But the content of your both the content and what you brought to that story you told on stage was so compelling to me, you really took on taboos head on, and really what it means to be a you know the taboos of being a fully embodied and what it means to be a woman with a body. Yes. And it was so wonderful. And I'm, we've pulled a little clip that, that I would like to share with you as the beginning of our conversation about you know, what this had me think through. So baby, take it away. A


Rene Huey-Lipton  16:08

few weeks later, I was in a meeting where we treat her as we do, or female customers as caricatures. And I told them, and it was uncomfortable and awkward as fuck. I told them that being a woman isn't simply that one thing we're having her do in the commercial. I told her it's not the 10 things, that it's 100 million difficult and wonderful things altogether. And we can't not except that I told them about my lack of nibbles. And that sometime in stores when I'm making a decision about makeup, or glossy hair products. I forget how to be a woman because I don't have nipples. Right. And I remember the terror of that meeting. But mostly, I remember a few days later, this sublime real complex, beautiful god damn script I saw. And it was like, they got it and they got me and for a while I was fine. And that felt good. We need to be more vulnerable, more brave more matter of fact, we can drive our industry to a place that shows us to having both depression and glorious hair and that they're both Okay, as more than a frame for clothes, or at least as a frame for clothes, or we're gonna ruin with any number of bodily fluids. And that's okay. Can we make sure that our bodies inclusive of all types of bodily functions don't just exist in museums, or on the pages of a book, but within the walls of our companies and our clients? And in the messages we put out in the world? And there was a great picture for this. But can we make sure that our periods aren't adorable glitter rivers down some perfect lady's fucking leg so let's promise to live the life of authenticity. Our industry talks so much about not self isolate, not keep silent, not be submissive, not apologize for having a body that works. So let's stop the exhaustion of pretending. And let's stop being a walking talking taboo. Thank you


Dia Bondi  18:18

so beautiful. And hit me so hard.


Rene Huey-Lipton  18:22

It still gets me right that I was coming off, you know, I just had obviously the parts that your listeners won't hear it but the nipples that I've just gone through breast cancer double mastectomy, right? I was just, I was tired of being you know, tired of cancer tied to be told what I could and couldn't do with my body. Right. And that felt like, because with cancer, it's like you don't there's not a lot of choices. I wanted to live flat. I did not want to have you know, these things on me that weren't mine and wouldn't have nipples. Yeah, I could have them sort of tattooed on but really, what's the point? And it made me think about all the years right that I spent, you know, as a woman as a as a pregnant woman as a nursing woman, you know, hoping that, you know, I wasn't gonna sort of be standing up with a giant milk stain on my breath. And then also as a woman going through not only breast cancer, but you know, this forced menopause right to sort of help with the cancer. And if that doesn't make you crazy, I don't know what we'll but I was just exhausted by it all. And I was said, Enough, right? Enough? No, we can't do this. And I read this astounding fact that because we hide ourselves because we self isolate, whether physically, emotionally or both. We lose legs. 68%, I think was the number of our creativity, because all of our mental energy is going towards hiding who we really are. And that includes the fact that, you know, Republic, maybe having a period or something at the timeout.


Dia Bondi  20:16

I love this. And it's just speaking to me in the language that I live in every day with my clients. You know, when I think about communicate the communications work that I do, it's not about like, where do I put my hands? It's not about that technique stuff. It's about living into your own truth. And speaking from that place. And I have managed to figure out that my point of view in it is that when we speak from who we truly are, we're actually more powerful. Yes, but there's a heat but but that is comes directly in confrontation with how we feel like we're supposed to show up. It's so true. It's very interesting tension that we have to kind of break with a decision to break, you know, it's not going to happen, like, accidentally, it's like, we have to decide, we have to decide to speak from that place that's aligned to who we really are. And you are so right, the more we hide, we spend our time figuring out and gaming out what we're not to be exactly. And if we spend so much time figuring out what we're not to be we forget to develop and get in relationship with who we actually are.


Rene Huey-Lipton  21:20

Yeah, yes. And you're right, it's we have to decide. And but it's not just one decision, we have to decide every time until it gets to the point where it becomes the muscle memory that the other crap used to be? Right? The spinning the what if I say this? And they don't like me, or this and that?


Dia Bondi  21:40

Yes. So I, you know, the first piece of my conversation with you is about exactly the instigation of that talk like, what was it? What, what brought you to, to, to that talk that topic? And I have that understanding from you? And so what has it been for you to be able to, and how have you over the course of your career, because you've had a high impact career. And I imagine you are a huge model for other women in the room, virtual or otherwise, you know, in the world in the world of work, like what does it like for you to say the thing you're not supposed to say to make that choice


Rene Huey-Lipton  22:14

is incredibly freeing. Right? And is


Dia Bondi  22:18

that something you've always done? Like, kiddo? Or is that something you decided you had to do? At some point?


Rene Huey-Lipton  22:24

Yeah, I grew up in a household where we didn't talk about the elephant in the rooms. Right. And there were a lot of big fucking elephants. Right. And we didn't talk about it. And that sort of carried through all the way through to you know, you know, my first job, second job. There were moments right. Tracy Wong at one Guti used to call me certainly read, because I would put myself out there, but because I wasn't doing authentically, I always had this edge that always has a sense of anger, it always had the sense of just Oh, right, as opposed to just hey, this is a thought I'm having. It's it's like I was trying to prove myself and say what I wanted to say all in one sentence, and nobody can do that. Right. And so it came out as this, you know, as he says, he said, certainly read. And but over time, I found my tools, I found my tools with my body, I found my tools with my humor, I found my tools with my own voice. And all of those three things had to come together for this to work.


Dia Bondi  23:32

And when you say this, what is the this


Rene Huey-Lipton  23:35

is the ability to sort of say, what needs to be said in the room to ask the questions that no one's asking to say the thing that everybody's thinking that no one is saying. Right, the taboos right or to challenge the status quo. Right? That ad I was talking about in that clip, right? It was just, it was the classic, you know, Biden smile, one dimensional woman, right, where we're sort of, you know, in Target smiling through our, you know, glitter river period, and everything's fine. And it's just it's one of those moments where it's like, how can anybody in this you start looking around going? Why isn't anybody else in this room like freaking out like I am, but maybe they are? Maybe they are, but no one says anything. So once you say it, that that there is like this wellspring of energy. Right? Once you start saying that, once you sort of embrace the freedom of saying what what needs to be said or should be said. And then you can just take this deep breath and all that sort of big, ugly snake, that sort of sitting in your stomach, or that sometimes sort of travels up and makes your voice waver goes away.


Dia Bondi  24:50

And what replaces it. Oh, just


Rene Huey-Lipton  24:53

fresh air. I mean, I don't mean to be silly, but it just feels fresh. and clean. And yeah, fresh and clean. Like, there's the stuff that should be said isn't being held back by something dark and achy.


Dia Bondi  25:12

Yes, yes. I mean, and even as you say it, you're sort of, we're on a video call for folks who are listening, even as you say, you're sort of like rounding your arms, your hands up to your shoulders and out. And the word that comes to mind is like spacious. Yes. Because that, doesn't it. Doesn't it create a platform for others to also go? Oh, yeah. How about this? And here's what I'm noticing. Yes. Yeah. And so is your, this is just this is kind of a yes or no question. But like, is that your job? In the world? Yes. That oneness breaks it?


Rene Huey-Lipton  25:40

Yes. It absolutely is. Yeah, I joked at my superpowers. What if, right? And, you know, the people I've worked with, you know, creators I worked with every time you know, they'll look at me people have worked with a long time. And I'll say, what if, and they'll just kind of go, Oh, God, because inevitably, I'll start with the most ridiculous bad advertising idea known to man, right? Because, you know, that's what I come up. But then it's a tool, because then it turns into a conversation about what if? And that that is my role? Yeah.


Dia Bondi  26:16

So I love this. And that's what I think of is like, living on is like, purpose to me isn't always about, like, what we're going to produce. You know, my purpose is to build a nonprofit that as well, well, that might, that might be a project. But when we are in align with our purpose in a room, we're kind of doing the job that that needs to be we're doing the job that's aligned with who we are, regardless of the regardless of the job description, that purpose is in at that moment.


Rene Huey-Lipton  26:47

That's so true. That is so true. You know, advertising is such a, or any communication, you get all these people in a room, right? And when you're when you get older, you realize that everyone has a role to play, right?


Dia Bondi  27:05

Which is the distinction between role and job, they're not always the same exam. That's what I mean by purpose. And job actually, is how I kind of separate so yeah,


Rene Huey-Lipton  27:14

yeah. And that's why you get in some of these meetings. And it's just like, what's happening here? Because people haven't made that distinction. Or they're trying to do both, which doesn't work either.


Dia Bondi  27:23

Yes, yes. So in the talk, and folks can find it on the internet is the Pecha Kucha at the 2018 3% conference, I think we put a link to it in the show notes. But there's a sense there's a thing you say at the very end, and we played it in the clip that you kind of rolled over, but really stuck out to me. You know, as I rewatched it and prep reparation for this conversation. I was like, what hit me so powerfully about this. And I think one of the things is the the story you were telling the way you were talking about the power, like the whole talk is full of all this powerful, language, unapologetic, and direct but compassionate, all this stuff. And then at the end, you say something like, I remember how terrifying how terrifying that meeting was, and then you just go on to like, and then they came back. And then they came back with a better script that was more represented a more whole woman. And so you know, I don't even know my question here. Except that like, that seems like a decision moment where we recognize like, Okay, this is actually going to be the scary moment where I, I guess I go back and say, What was terrifying about that, about that moment,


Rene Huey-Lipton  28:27

it wasn't what I wanted to say. It was who I wanted to say it to write all the men in the room telling all the men in the room that boy, you do not get women, you are not getting this, right. It's one thing if we're talking about an airline ad, right, that has nothing to do with gender power or anything like that, saying, Wow, this is really off brief. This was, yeah, the apps they showed were technically on brief, but it was telling them it's like they don't even know who women are. That was the terrifying bit because that is people don't hear criticism like that. Well, nobody does. I don't hear well, if someone told me you know, something that, you know, I'm a human, really, you don't know humans at all, that would be upsetting. And so the terrifying it was, it really wasn't about in that moment, it was what's going to happen that night when they're home thinking about it. And then what's going to happen the next day, oh, God, I'm going to be fired or Oh, god, they're not going to like me, right? I I know so many women who struggle with this, like women that you would look at and say, Wow, she kicks ass and takes name every second of every day. And yet, they all say I go home at night and I start sort of this thing in my head and oh my god, they're gonna do this and then I'm gonna get fired and then nobody's gonna love me and then, you know, and that's what I was terrified of, because that is so detrimental. Right to my Help to my relationships with those people because as soon as that starts happening, I start acting differently around them.


Dia Bondi  30:07

Yes, I hear two themes in there that are really common themes in the work that I do. So it's aside from my communications work, we also have a project in my business called Ask like an auctioneer, and just helping a million women ask for more and get it using my my impact hobby of auctioneering. And, you know, when, when women in my workshops, want to ask for more, and it's not always about money, right? It's can be about visibility, a lead on a project, being a vocal represented, like more authority over decision making, like it could be a myriad of things. There's often like, you know, I want to ask for that thing. And there's two pieces that what you're talking about the touch some of their concerns, which is the the risk of disconnection and the risk of backlash, which I don't know that they're always those, those are the same things. But yeah, the risk of disconnection and the risk of of backlash, yeah. How have you managed that in your career?


Rene Huey-Lipton  31:02

In the beginning? I did not deal with it well, at all right, I was still in that mode of Who do I have to be? What do I have to look like? What do I have to sound like? What are they going to want to hear? Right? How can I sound smart right now, what's the next thing I want to say? All this stuff that gets in the way of that sort of spaciousness, where you can actually be authentic and sort of actually hear, right from people? And then in your own head? What, what would be good to say right now. And you know, you get all tight and your body gets tight, and your voice gets tight, and it comes out as that that edge? And I would spend all my energy worrying, right? I didn't, you know, and then you know, right about the time I got to a point where I made the decision to do this. I also had to make the decision to say, Fuck the backlash. Right? You know, it is


Dia Bondi  32:03

this is, this is one of the conversations we had on the podcast, streaming crews, who is a tactical, I don't even empathy tactical empathy negotiator anyway, to address this question of backlash, because what do we do about the backlash? It's such? It's not not real. It's not not real. You know, studies show it's not real. And there are countless stories of fear of backlash. That doesn't happen also. Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I want to surface that to say that backlash is not guaranteed, you have to have, you know, we want to have strategies in place in the you know, we want to have a lot of rapport and connection with the people around us that we do take risks, either others can help mitigate the backlash with us, if it comes from somewhere else, or we or we have to kind of be prepared if there is one in a strategy for ourselves. So we stay safer on careers and trajectories. I'm not suggesting people just fillet themselves. But but there is the the answer to back to dealing with backlash can't be not asking for what we want, it can't be shutting up. It can't be don't advocate for yourself, it can't be don't don't say what needs to be said.


Rene Huey-Lipton  33:13

Right? You have to be with backlash. thing is you don't know, really, you can spend all night running scenarios, right for what's going to happen the next day. But you get there, it'll be the completely different person saying a thing you never even thought of before. So in the moment, you just have to say, and I often say to myself, Okay, this could get some, you know, but just fuck it. And then tomorrow, if something comes up, then then I'll think about it. I'll think about what they are saying how they are saying it. And then I'll either respond or say, you know, I need some time to respond to that.


Dia Bondi  33:56

You have a beautiful, that is a beautiful approach, because it sounds like you have figured out that presence is on your side. If I can just be present to this moment and deal with this moment, then I will deal with what comes tomorrow in that moment. Exactly. Instead of dragging tomorrow and yesterday into this moment. And it sounds like that has been one of the strategies you've used or, you know, that that recognition and that ability is something that's allowed you to be able to say there's an elephant in the room without letting the fear of backlash when


Rene Huey-Lipton  34:33

exactly, yes, and you know, you I had to do that because my initial the way I grew up, right, the my initial reaction is always going to be an emotional knee jerk one, which is not helpful for anyone at all and off and on and will always not often will always make it worse. Right but it really feels good at the time we all want to be. And I'll date myself now, but the on Designing Women, the dark haired women who always went on these amazing sort of rants. Yeah, she had it written for I would love to be able to stand up, right and sort of just say, you know, a 10 minute soliloquy on sort of, you know, the the taboos and how it'd be so powerful. But in that moment, I am not, I'm not good. I had to realize that, you know, my, in order to be better, I have to sort of put that aside and wait until it actually happens. Because all the things I figured out my head, then become the show, I want to say, which might not have anything to do with the backlash that might arrive or might not arrive. Right. I could show up tomorrow to you know, and never throw me a party because you said the thing rainy. I mean, that never happens, but that can


Dia Bondi  35:59

happen. Absolutely. Do you trust yourself?


Rene Huey-Lipton  36:03

I do now, I absolutely trust myself, I learned to trust my gut. I learned to trust that that pressure inside you, where you're sitting at a table or standing with other people talking, and there's that pressure inside you to just say it this needs to be said Just say it. And I would so often just push that down. And then I realized just by taking that chance, once in a while saying it. Okay. The world didn't end. Okay. This felt good. And, and we can't deny that part. When you do something and it feels good. embrace that. Right. We so often will say to ourselves, okay, fine. I felt good, blah. Right. It's like we can't take


Dia Bondi  36:50

but I hear I hear you saying not the sort of hedonistic feel good. No, you're talking about alignment feel good? Yes. Like that was that was aligned with who I am. And the impact I was trying to exactly, yes, yes. Well, right. Because this, this is not an opportunity to just be confessional and to just shit all over everything. Right. But but but this very, I hear you being very thoughtful and not, and taking these risks when your body is in a cooler state than when it's really wound up. I heard that as a strategy you may be


Rene Huey-Lipton  37:20

used over your life. Yeah, don't I mean, do I still have those moments where I don't take the time? Sure. Human, you know, but I can say that 90% of the time now. And that used to be flipped.


Dia Bondi  37:34

So I sort of as the final sort of discussion I want, and I know, for folks who are listening, this isn't like how do you build a business? Or how do you be a great creative This is, to me, this is about how do you walk? You know, you are in and you inspired me as a mentor voice to think about how I can and other people that come across the work that we do on folks who listen to this podcast, you know, walk in personal power and compassion for you know, at the same time, as as a source of as a source of impact and strength, not as like just a bulldozer, you know? So in that let's talk about impact for a second. So you had a real strong impact on me in that moment, which I think is why I asked you like, is this your job in the world? And I say job, I mean, purpose, like to break something open for other people a little bit? How do you think about impact in your own life and career?


Rene Huey-Lipton  38:32

Yeah, I'm not when I saw that question. It scared me a little bit.


Dia Bondi  38:37

Good. But that's my purpose.


Rene Huey-Lipton  38:41

And I sort of just I sat myself down, and I sort of took a breath. And I realized that what I thought about it was all those moments I missed, because I was too busy running too busy trying to think of the smart thing to say, too busy trying to sort of just sit and take it all in, right, the impact that others could have had on me that I missed, because I was too busy trying to be something else in that moment. And I oh my god, right. Just the people that I have been incredibly lucky, right between ROI spans but Judy trouble see, right, one of the other partners that GST and on the end, right? They always used to joke that Judy Rossi was the ampersand of GST and M right, because she didn't get her initial and year. I mean, even now, I just am so angry about that. Because she rocks, but all these amazing people who if I had let it happen, could have had an impact on me. And I could have learned things so much earlier. Right? That's, that's what I think about and I think about that. And during those moments when I feel like running, right, I'm a runner, right? We I have an argument with my husband Fine, let's get divorced. It's ridiculous, right? But it is this sense of when things go wrong. Oh, I'll go home right to the ranch, where I grew up it is this sense of I am a runner. And I would do that in moments of not just high stress but high importance.


Dia Bondi  40:20

Right, take small, high stakes moments


Rene Huey-Lipton  40:22

Exactly. And I've really learned to sort of just bury my feet in the sand and not let myself move and just be there.


Dia Bondi  40:31

That's so wonderful. And that's that this, like that decision, that decision to stay engaged. And I hear you talk about impact, not just on the impact that you have on others, but on how you what you engage in, that allows folks to have impact on you.


Rene Huey-Lipton  40:45

It's interesting, the impact on others, I always think about first in relationship to my kids, right? My kids, are they, you know, grew up to be interested in interesting people. And I think a part of that was that I was always more authentic at home. Right, I was always more vulnerable at home. I was always more open and that at home. And so I think, you know, I'd like to think I modeled that for them. And so it was literally like one day going, Well, why can't I do that? And I was thinking, you know, for the other women in the room is what I was originally thinking I've had, you know, young advertising men come up to me and say, that was amazing, you know, but mostly it's women saying, yes. How do you do that? I'm like, You're just do it.


Dia Bondi  41:41

But at the end of that, that they're talking about is to break something in the room that has to be broken. Exactly. Yeah, it's just so. So for women earlier in their careers, you know, women and underrepresented folks across the board who you know, hurt who, for whom the risk feels greater to speak, to break something in the room, when I say break in terms of something positive, not like, you know, yeah. What is your wish for them,


Rene Huey-Lipton  42:09

to not have to sort of waste the energy like I did, write to us, or anything other than being themselves, right, and to just, in the moment, be in the moment as much as possible, and respond to what's happening there. And I'm authentic, as as authentically as possible. That's what I wish for them. You know, Roy Spence would say, things like, about a brand, you need to be better, you would not wish them. I always took that to, you know, as a personal thing, how do I be a better me, and not a worse? So and so if I was trying to be like, you know, I work with this woman named Hayley rushing who is astounding in so many ways, right? But I think never be here. Why would I you know, and, and she wouldn't want me to be here. She wouldn't. She wants me to be me. Right. But early on, I would find myself you know, she was sweet and brilliant and sweet. And I'm not sweet. You know, I wish I I used to wish I was but I was like Jesus really don't be a twit. Just not new. But just be a better you not a worse them.


Dia Bondi  43:24

So I'm a mom to our two kiddos. And something I I've kind of recognized now that my kids are, you know, middle school high school age is that what was really tough to parent in them when they were much younger, right now is actually like one of their greatest assets. And you know, it is my friends that like yep, all the things that are, you know, that are our liabilities when we're kids are our assets. When we grow up. I got I got in trouble a lot for a big mouth. And now my I use my mouth to have impact. So there it is. Um, so what I'm curious about for you is like, what is the thing that maybe you were punished for earlier in your career, but is now something you are rewarded for?


Rene Huey-Lipton  44:07

Yeah, this, right? It is the energy. What do you try and push it energy down? It doesn't mean it goes away. It just sits there in a different form. Right? And I've been told hundreds of times in my career Rini whatever mood you're in, that's the mood of the room. You have to control it. And it's true, right? If I'm, if I come into a meeting in a bad mood, you can see it on my face. You can see it in this and it does affect people. I don't know why I was blessed with that. But I was and you before I sort of figured it out to you and you know, started using it for good. It would I would have that sort of angry, pulsing sort of edginess. And people didn't know, my bosses didn't know how to deal with it, because they didn't know what it was. Right? They weren't sure if I was just an angry young woman, or it was dealing with them, a lot of them didn't even care to try. They would just say, fixture fixture personality in the room, no one ever asked what's going on. Literally no one ever asked. So when I confused, boldness with sort of an angry edge, right, that's not a combination that works kind of for anyone. And so I had to, I had to figure out, that's what I was, would be punished for early in my career. Now, I can look back at sort of key points, key meetings, you know, or key presentations, where I would just go oh, man, if if, if I'd have known then, man, I would have nailed that. There was your pitching kiya. And I was standing in for someone which meant I was speaking their words, which is which is a no no to begin with. Right. But I was so I was nervous. It was it was just one of those days where everything was going wrong. And the the lead gentleman from Kenya, you know, sitting there literally in a never jacket was plastic. As I was talking, he just kept sinking. Like he was so embarrassed for me. He was cringing and sinking behind the desk. And I was seeing that going oh my god. He's this is no this is really happening. So that I was trying Oh, it was it was disaster of epic proportions. I lost that pitch. I can say that now. But, God, if I was the person I am now he wouldn't have been cringing, he would have been standing up and clapping. Right he would have been you know, woo hooing because that would have been sort of the energy and the authenticity and you know my words that I brought to that meeting.


Dia Bondi  47:08

Yeah, I hear that your energy in the later in your career that used to be a punishable type of energy you you have harnessed it Which isn't to say controlled it or restricted it but harnessed it in a way that now it's an incredible asset for you.


Rene Huey-Lipton  47:27

I use my power for good.


Dia Bondi  47:30

Beautiful Rennie. It's been a joy talking to you and I'm so thrilled to know you and to have you on the Deobandi shows been


Rene Huey-Lipton  47:40

a blast and next time we're at the same conference we'll have a drink together hopefully,


Dia Bondi  47:47

we share well.


Arthur  47:51

This podcast is a production of Dia Bondi communications and is produced and scored by me are thoroughly on Adams the third, you can like share rate and subscribe at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Find us at D Or follow us on Instagram at the Deobandi show. Want to shoot us a question for the show. Call us at 341-333-2997 and maybe you'll hear your question answered on a future episode.

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