Dia Bondi 00:05
So where do we get money wrong? Where do we get it wrong? I mean, you You gave us some hints before, but I'll just ask the question again like, that's how simple it is. Where do we get it wrong?
Hilary Hendershott 00:14
The simple answer is you you get it wrong because your parents got it wrong and they gave it to you. They got it wrong because their parents got it wrong and they gave it to them right.
Dia Bondi 00:47
Hello, everyone, welcome to the Deobandi show a big huge podcast for your goals. I'm dia Bondi longtime leadership, communications coach and catalyst. And I am on a mission to both help leaders speak powerfully when the stakes are high. But I'm also on a mission to put more money and decision making power in the hands of women so we can change everything for all of us. And this podcast is a part of that mission. This place is the place where you can learn to ask for more and get it resource your dreams so you can reach your goals super fast, right now. So today, we're going to have a little bit of money talk. We're going to talk money, shame and the right to build wealth with Hilary Hendershot. But first say hey to Baby A. Hey, DIA. How's it going?
I like the new intro.
Dia Bondi 01:32
Oh, it was it new. I don't know. I'm kind of just rolling in it today. A little bit. Yeah, there
was a lot of new stuff in there. It was good old. Oh, good. Well,
Dia Bondi 01:39
that's, you know, that's what I'm known for. That's what people think of when they think of Deobandi. I don't know if that's good or loud. That to that they're interchangeable. Often. Yeah. Well, fortunately for you, listener, I don't have to be so loud, you have access to your volume button.
That's right. And you also have access to me, the producer who mixes your volume down a lot.
Dia Bondi 01:57
It's so true. You're so good at it. You bring everything in line, don't you like on the fix? What is the phrase fix it in post? You could just fix it. Fix it in post.
That's what we do. What's happening
Dia Bondi 02:07
for you today?
Oh, you know, I don't know recording this episode. And then I don't know what,
Dia Bondi 02:14
that's not bad. You'll have one thing to do today. That's sort of amazing. I've 1700 meetings and this one just got slated right in the middle. But it's kind of my most fun one. today. It's not a meeting. I get it with a podcast recording, but it is the the one I've been looking forward to all week. I mean, for one I love seeing and hearing you hear but also like the conversation with Hillary undershot is going to be is going to be good. That's what I expect, anyway. And if it's not guess what you'll do? Oh, cut it down. fix it in post. Yeah, exactly. So um, what else? Yeah.
What's going on with you today?
Dia Bondi 02:46
Well, wow, I don't know. I well, I do know we have a lot of goals in the business right now. We're going to be launching some stuff. Let's see. Is it September is the first week of September right now. We're going to be launching some stuff in the next couple of weeks. Yeah. Although by the time
it'll be long out by the time this cut this comes out in like December. Exactly. Or
Dia Bondi 03:06
come out in December. But so things will have been launched. So you can always go to dia Bondi comm to see whatever has been launched, because it will be likely right there. But yeah, today I'm just doing a lot of creative lifts. I have. I have some writing to do. I have some actions to take. I have some exercises to do. Ooh, I got in the garage and did a workout today that just about turn me inside out. So yeah, I'm like I'm it's one of those sort of productive days where you're just handling the business.
Nice. I had a couple of those the last two days, but today, all I have is this.
Dia Bondi 03:41
Yeah, it's nice for you. That's nice. Yeah. So what do we have today? Well,
before we get to Hillary, we have a voicemail from a listener that I wanted to play.
Dia Bondi 03:51
Hey, dia, I listened to your episode, negotiating and what about backlash today? And I actually sobbed a few times. remembering all the times I've been actually punished for advocating for myself and thinking about what a massive impact that has had on my psyche and on the trajectory of my life. Anyway, just wanted to tell you I love your podcast
Dia Bondi 04:24
Thank you caller for dropping that in our in our voicemail box and you know, well yes this podcast is aspirational. Yes the work that we're doing around helping women ask for more and get it and resource their dreams you know with Project asked like an auctioneer which hopefully will be a book soon. You know, it is all really aspirational. And you know what she's pointing to is exactly why we had we did that episode which is this you know this stuff doesn't come without consequences and you all listening today maybe our callers Comment and Share Air is resonant for you. You know, sometimes we get caught in this place where the very thing we need to do adores for ourselves is a very thing that we get punished for. And getting out of that logjam is really is really hard. And so while the show and this work is aspirational, it does not overlook the fact that, that that is super real, you know that. And we will continue to have folks on the show to talk about strategies to deal with backlash, you know, how we can think about going around those obstacles as often as possible and continue to, you know, charge forward in a way that makes sense for each of us. Without getting stopped without feeling like we have to choose to not pursue what matters to us. So yes, when we advocate for what we want, you know, we might push ourselves out of our current context, meaning you might be asking for something right now in your career or in your business. Or from your collaborators that give you even even if you don't get the backlash, you may be getting the nose or you may be getting, you may be getting responses that tell you that you're not going to get what you want or need in that context. And that the choice you have in front of you is to let yourself in this moment, get pushed out of that context into the next context where you can make traction on the thing that matters to you and your goal. Because you know, sometimes not getting what I what we want, you know what I think about ask for more and get it, it might be that you ask for more in that moment, and you don't get it in that moment. But that moment is telling you it's time to move to a new context where you can get it. So you know, all of this stuff has impact. And there is you know, even in our conversation with Lindsey Gordon around, you know, career alignment, we talked a little bit about sort of the loss and sadness with coming, you know, coming to the to the recognition that what we're doing right now doesn't fit us anymore. That who we're collaborating with right now doesn't fit us anymore, that who we're working for right now doesn't fit us anymore. Maybe the goals and dreams we had for ourselves five years ago, don't fit us anymore. And that Moving on is a way to move beyond something where you're getting the backlash that isn't that isn't making your dream isn't helping you resource your dream. So, color, thank you for taking time to share your little story with us and help other women and folks understand that and see and feel that they may not be alone. So if you're listening to the show right now, and you have a story about how you might be advocating for yourself questions you have about how to do it asks that you are making in your life and career right now that can change everything. You can call us on the show and ask the question or share your story, help other women and underrepresented folks who might be listening to this show, feel less alone and their pursuit to resource their dreams. And we would not just be a and I be grateful to hear from you. But all of the folks who listened to the show, get value from your story. And you can do that by calling the number that baby is going to share with us right now.
That number is 341-333-2997. And in addition to calling us you can also rate and review and subscribe on whatever your favorite podcast platform is and you can share us with your friends and that will help the podcast grow and reach more people. So today, as you mentioned before, we have a great guest Hillary undershot,
Dia Bondi 08:44
she is super great. And so Hilary Hendershot is somebody I met. I don't actually know how we met virtually, I think through a baby. I just listened to her podcast, which I'll mention in just a second. But she was the first we have I was saying earlier before we started recording that we have so many the first people who fill in the blank around project asked like an auctioneer. And she was the first podcast we had. We had cat Gordon, who was the first person I pitched to bring sort of a micro version of the keynote to an audience to see if it you know fit in event venue. We had we had Meyer Benjamin on the show who was the first internal leader at an organization that I that I explored what project asked like an engineer might do to fit into that context help women inside of organizations ask for more and get it and Hillary undershot was the first person I ever reached out to to bring the ideas insider project asked like an auctioneer onto a podcast and I think I sent her a note and literally she got back to me in like two and a half minutes. And so I'm so happy to now have her on our show. So Hilary undershot is the founder of Hendershot, Wealth Management. It's a leading financial advisory and wealth coaching firm for women which is so cool Her mission is to motivate women and their loved ones to be financially empowered and to thrive and her wealth coaching programs have enabled participants to finally take control of their money. A lot of us know what that feels like or we want to know what that feels like. In those programs, folks will learn healthy financial habits and grow their individual wealth by millions of dollars collectively. So Hillary is I mentioned to you about the podcast. She is the host of profit boss radio, a weekly financial podcast where she and her guests offer women financial, and financial inspiration and actionable advice. She's a TEDx speaker, and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal NBC, ABC, FOX daily word, Forbes, Investopedia, etc. And she was recognized as a top 40 under 40 entrepreneur in Silicon Valley in 2018 2019. And 2020, in Investopedia, named her one of the top 100 Most Influential advisors in the in the US. So Hillary has an MBA from Santa Clara University and as a certified financial planner, and we're so happy to have her on the show today. Hillary Hello, hi. I'm so glad to see you. I was just telling before you logged into the call, I was telling Arthur and everyone listening that you were the first proper boss radio was the first podcast I pitched should talk about ask like an auctioneer. I had gone around the world. Yeah, I was like, huh, so let me do this thing in corporate and and did it at corporate to see if there was appetite there, like is this relevant there? And I did it at a conference. And I was like, I wonder if podcasters would be interested in talking about this. And so you were the first person I reached out to you and I think literally you got back to me in two and a half minutes with just the term with just a phrase. Let's do
Hilary Hendershott 11:53
it. You know, I Googled you just listen to you actually talk like an auctioneer. I do. Remember I have like a visual memory of that.
Dia Bondi 12:04
So funny. So so funny. So I'm, I'm so happy to have you here today. And, you know, I'm calling this episode. Money, shame and the right to build wealth. Because this stuff is complicated. That's deep. Yes, in some ways, really simple, I think. And in other cases, it's it's complex, right? And I know that you are, in your practice, I understand you are really a big champion of and talk a lot about mindset and neuroplasticity around how we think about, you know, money and wealth and all the stuff attached to it. Am
Hilary Hendershott 12:36
I wrong? Yeah, given how you given the title you selected for the interview? I have a really important question. Is this a curse on your show or not curse on the show?
You can curse all you fucking want.
Dia Bondi 12:52
Let's do it. What had you asked that question about what had the title prompt that question?
Hilary Hendershott 12:59
Hmm. Well, money has a very logistical practical, this is how you handle it side. And then money has a very deep cultural gender based emotional morass that lots of times when I speak publicly, I don't actually curse on my own podcast. I don't know, I heard that it makes it hard to get listed on iTunes. I don't know I should research that because I use I use fuck often in my life. But, but I say when I've speak publicly, people are people I say we made money up. And then we forgot that we made it up. And people went crazy about it. And when I say people went crazy, I mean, they're batshit fucking crazy about it. And so that's what that was your that was your episode title. Like, let's talk about how bad shit we are. It's
Dia Bondi 13:43
so good. So I am. So we're having you on the show. Because this is a podcast. This is a big podcast for women with goals. And one of the goals of the of the podcasts and tied to project us ask like an auctioneer are the mission is to put more money and decision making power in the hands of women. So we can change everything for all of us. So, you know, having you on the show is a great is a is a really important part of talking about what it means to put more money in our hands, and then what we do with it to build wealth, right? So maybe you can share with us really quickly, sort of what your money story is and what your wealth story is. Yeah.
Hilary Hendershott 14:19
Yeah. So So I got started in the field of financial planning in the year 1999. So I have a degree in economics I used to tutor the math portion of the LSAT. I tell you that I have an MBA at this point. I and I tell you this stuff because I do have a head for numbers. And a few years into my career. I had to be really honest with myself because I found myself advising multi millionaire investors during the day what they should do with their stock market portfolios and coming home at night to a stack of bills that I wouldn't open because I could not pay them. I was a massive over spender. I was far more interested in convincing you that I was already wealthy than doing the things that it would take To be wealthy, so I had the emblems of wealth, confused with the reality of wealth and I was playing a very financially destructive game and it came to a head. There was a moment I pulled my lease book BMW into the gas station to get a tank of gas. And I tried all three of my credit cards at that point, they were all maxed out. And my bank account was empty. Okay, so I had literally had to walk home from the gas station. I've had people pull me aside after speaking gigs and say, did that moment really happen? Or did you just like make that up for the storytelling? Power of it? And I said, No, it really freaking out. And, you know, I make a long story short, I lost a condo tanked my FICO gave back to BMW, I spent every penny in my retirement accounts chasing good money after bad. And I said to myself on that walk home from the gas station, what the hell have you done Hillary? How is it that your intentions were so so good, and your outcomes or your results are so bad? And I said, you know, I don't care what I have to do. I was in my early 30s, or I, you know, 2931, something like that. And I said, I can see clearly what the rest of my life will be filled with. If I continue to behave this way. It's obvious financial emergencies, embarrassment, not being able to pay the bill getting kicked out of my condo, right? Like, these are not things I want to have constitute my life. So I said, I'm going to figure this out. I don't care. I don't care what I have to do. I don't care what I have to reverse. I don't care how embarrassed I am, I'm going to figure it out. So I became a student of neuro psychology, I looked around me and I said, if I got lots of smart friends, some of them are getting wealthy. So what's the difference between me and them? It's not intentions. It's not intelligence. It's got to be psychology, because what's behind your behavior? It's your psychology. So neuro psychology is very, it's sort of overlaps with this field of Money, Money psychology or Money, Finance, Financial mindset study, right. And I started attending talks and reading every book I could get my hands on, and I figured out where the hole in my financial bucket was. And it was this coating that I got when I was a kid. My mom was a decent earner, she was a great saver, which means we were on a strict budget and hurt she's like, does without it was like we did without a lot of stuff. And it didn't work for me. And I made up that there's never enough money. And then everything I did in my life was to prove that there's never enough money. So I got out of college during the height of the.com. Boom, I was making six figures as a recruiter in Silicon Valley, one of those dot bomb future dot bomb companies. And so I'd make $100,000 And I would spend 120, right because money burned a hole in my pocket because I had to keep proving that there's never enough money. And so these super dysfunctional behaviors persisted until I figured out the solution to all that by the way, there's never enough money is one of what I call It's a script or money script. I call it a money operating system I trademarked that term. Do you shared with me your money operating system in he wrote it typed it to me a few days ago, you could share it if you want to. But there's like a there's like a a density of money operating systems that are very common, very popular. There's never enough money, you have to work hard for money. Money is the root of all evil, or like there's something wrong with rich people, right? If I'm good, or if I'm virtuous, the universe will like just provide or sometimes it's Daddy will provide, right? So you've heard, money doesn't Money doesn't grow on trees. These kinds of statements are superstitions about money. And so I started teaching about what I had learned as I was climbing my way out. Now fast forward many years, I'm in my mid 40s, I have a seven or eight figure net worth, I run a million dollar a year business. So I've read, I've unwound the the messes I've made in the past. And, and I and I'm not teaching about what I've learned, because there was this moment, the universe said to me, Hillary, what you figured out people need to know. So that's what I'm doing. So you started the conversation by saying this, your show is about making, putting women in the decision making seat and putting more money in their bank accounts. And that is, that's my life. I've given my career to that.
Dia Bondi 19:17
Awesome, super awesome. It's so great. So like I wrote, you know, in preparation for this conversation, I wrote out a bunch of questions. And of course, you know, I did write down what my money story is, it was hoping that you could get we could do some live coaching on the call. And of course, I want to jump right to that. But I want to back up first, I'm going to like cool my jets just a little bit. And and just ask, you know, and this seems like a really simple and direct question, but like, what is money?
Hilary Hendershott 19:45
Yeah, so money actually is a conversation. A lot of people will say money is energy. Money is something that human beings made up so I'm not it's you could say it's a conversation. You could say it's energy. It's the same thing but literally conversation for as human beings conversation is what separates us from the animal kingdom, right? So we made it up. It's, it's a solution to a barter problem. So in the past, if I wanted your cows, I had to have chickens that you wanted, right? If you didn't want my chickens, I couldn't trade for your cows, I couldn't get my cows, like, all was lost. So we made up money so that I could give you a coin, a thing that represented something you could trade in the future for something you wanted. And because you trust that system, you take my coin for your cows. End of story. That's all money is.
Dia Bondi 20:33
So where do we get money wrong? Where do we get it wrong? I mean, you You gave us some hints before, but I'll just ask the question again, like, so that's how simple it is. Where do we get it wrong? The simple
Hilary Hendershott 20:42
answer is you you get it wrong, because your parents got it wrong. And they gave it to you. They got it wrong, because their parents got it wrong. And they gave it to them, right? I don't know. I mean, human beings put meaning on lots of things, right? So we forgot that we made money up, we forgot that it's a blank slate. And then we saw people do it is true that people do diabolical things with money, like that happens. And there are diabolical people who don't have money, right? So it's not the fault of money that that those people did that thing we forget to assign responsibility where it actually lies. And we've infused money with a whole bunch of meanings and superstitions that it doesn't actually have.
Dia Bondi 21:29
I want to jump in here and say I love this. So one of the things that I teach in ask like an auctioneer is to actually separate your worth from your money. We hear right now so much in our culture get paid what you're worth getting, this might be controversial listeners, I don't know, maybe making you mad right now, get paid what you're worth, you know, know your worth. And I have found in my 20 years of communications coaching that when you know helping, you know, women leaders, in a lot of cases looking for resources for their projects, for lots of things, not just asking for a raise, or just raising their consulting rates or like not just dollar and cents tied to like direct pay. But that it's very easy. When we think about asking for what we're worth, or we tie what we get to our inherent worth that we automatically want to make our asks smaller, because if I don't get what I asked for means I might not be worth it. So I all day long actually want to and like raise the stakes of of making asking for money, the thing you need to resource your dream, raise the stakes enough that you stand up for it, but lower the stakes enough to understand that what you asked for and what you get does not mean is not necessarily a direct relationship to what you're worth. Now, we're you know, do you see what I'm saying here? It's like, oh, yeah, I want everyone to ask for more, but I want them to because if we tie our worthiness up too much in this transactional thing you're just describing to us, we end up sabotaging our courage.
Hilary Hendershott 23:01
So first of all, I see the asking game, I just said it more like a game at this point. But I do know what you're talking about. And my response to that is use the conversation charge what you're worth, if that empowers you. But the truth is a you don't have a worth and be you're not selling yourself, okay? You're selling like a thing that you promised to do for a couple hours, right? And so I had a chemistry teacher, I laugh about this, I had a chemistry teacher, this was 25 years ago or whatever, in community college chemistry class, and she said, if you were to break your human body down into vials, and like the actual chemical makeup of your body, you're worth about $7 in the chemistry store. So like with inflation, that's probably like $15 You're probably worth like $15 Sorry. Like that's it the rest of the rest of the chemistry
Dia Bondi 23:54
store. Where's the Arthur? Where's our local chemistry store? Have you been to the chemistry store this
week? Only the chemistry is so good. I think it's wholesale. Yeah, you're
Dia Bondi 24:06
gonna get it on Amazon. Yeah, okay. Okay, cool. So I love this and yeah, I love this distinction that only use you know, ask for what you're worth get paid what you're worth when it's courage making and useful to you. But when it starts to tie things up too tightly that it makes it harder to ask for more because if you don't get it we read too much we put place meaning on that so hard you know that then if it's becomes less useful than what is the other perspective we can take it set an edge ask like an auctioneer we'll do another episode on it now when when when we talk about um you know you made a shift in your story like it you know, you're when I hear your your story or path to your relationship with money and your path to wealth. You made a decision, which I think is core to to your to your money blueprint framework. Yeah, which we'll talk about in a little bit. The well that just came out of nowhere. I Like I've been, I've been listening, Hillary, I'm
Hilary Hendershott 25:02
listening to you read some stuff.
Dia Bondi 25:04
I don't know how that happened. I just came from nowhere. But it did come from somewhere. Actually, I have been in your sphere. So the when we start to get money, right? What's that like?
Hilary Hendershott 25:18
Um, well, in the beginning, unless for some reason you start making half a million dollars a year, it, there's no way around that it feels like tightening your belt, when you reverse when you put make a sea change in your financial life, you go from bringing in the same amount and spending more to bringing in that same amount and spending less so that you can save some or use it to pay off debt. And so it hurts it's like going on a diet as much as you want to call it a food plan. It's a diet, right? And those small daily actions compound on one another because you learn to be someone who asks for more who gets raises or raises your prices, you learn to bring more money into your life, you learn to command money with your speaking. Right. And so it's a like, it's a skill. And I think, you know, there was a time in my business when I would have worked with anyone who could fog a mirror, as they say. And now things are very different, right? Just because I've compounded skill on skill on skill I, I know I I've sold valuable skill sets. I know it's valuable, my time becomes more valuable. I start to charge more. It's like this virtuous circle. I hope I answered your question.
Dia Bondi 26:31
Yeah, I mean, so I hear and that like it feels constricting. And I'm sure you've observed in your clients that moment where they've made the decision. And then they have to do that, that maybe that moment where it feels a little constricting. And then I also heard the word command. So is that freedom is that control is a is a relief
Hilary Hendershott 26:50
in right and confidence, beautiful. It's pride and confidence even in the restrictive stage. No can feel uncertain then because for the most part, you're going around doing what your body urges you to do. So your subconscious mind is urging was urging me to spend spend, spend, if you and I went out to drinks, you would have loved me, I'd have bought your dinner and your drinks, and I would have paid for my credit card that was maxed out. Right? That was what I wanted to do. So I had to learn how to not do that. That's not comfortable.
Dia Bondi 27:18
Interesting. Yeah. And I bring this up, because maybe some folks who are listening right now are on the precipice of that first decision, or like right at that point where they're deciding to change something, and to to, you know, this is all very aspirational. But also the reality of what it feels like is both, you know, what did you say pride and control with pride and pride and pride and confidence, but also maybe some restriction and discomfort simultaneously. So that when we start to make changes in our behaviors, that set up a new money life and a new wealth life, that the experience of doing that isn't, you know, thrown away in this narrative,
Hilary Hendershott 28:00
right. And there may be people in your life who are very disappointed that you're changing your financial habits, if you know what I mean. Maybe, maybe your money is flowing to someone or someone's, and it's inappropriate, given what you have and what you what you want, and what you're doing. And to your
Dia Bondi 28:19
to your point a second ago, maybe you were the one of the table that always threw down. And now you're not that one anymore.
Hilary Hendershott 28:24
Maybe you have to learn how to say if we're going out to drinks tonight, you're paying because I'm not.
Dia Bondi 28:29
Yeah, your friends have to really get to know you. Yes, so good. It does, it does shift a lot of power in our relationships, doesn't it? Like it has this ripple effect across how we operate in our lives that are that are noticeable, so that that feeling of wanting to spend when you don't kind of tell a really silly story, do it? When I was when I after my first kiddo was born, I have a 14 year old son and an 11 year old daughter, I actually don't know if I've told the show this this story on the show before but we had just purchased our house in, in the East Bay here in the Bay Area. And it was the absolute maximum we could afford. And I was I up until at having a kiddo I was traveling all over the world on somebody else's nickel doing, you know, training and coaching and facilitating workshops. And so I got to travel the world not paying for like I was fairly financially, you know, conservative, but always had a little extra money because of it to like, buy the extra, you know, buy the nicer bottle of wine or whatever it was, and, and we had just gone into this big financial commitment. And I am because I was traveling all the time and just had a baby. I was stay at home mom and because I was like, I don't know how I'm going to continue this career and have like, I didn't have a picture in my mind of how to still get to be a globetrotter and have a kiddo and you know, the wazoo so I just took that like year and a half I was just at home and we had zero extra dollars and I craved that thing you Talking about, you know, you go spend the thing so I used to go to target with my son, and walk around the store and shop. I like this pillow I like this coffeemaker look at these socks are so soft. And then I'd fill up the cart, and then I'd leave it in the aisle, get in my car and drive home. That's so awesome. What it did for me was it led me well for what it was entertainment for to it, let me have that adrenaline like, oh, this pillow is so me. This, you know, this mascara is so me, you know, I got to like do all the things that shopping does for you. And then there was a moment where I realized I don't have to buy all this stuff. And I could spend an hour and a half at Target and walk away from the cart. Like walk away from whatever $300 with a garbage I didn't need that was fun to shop for. And there was part and part of me in my heart that felt that confidence and that control and that other to be able to walk away from it. Like I was walking away from a burning building.
Hilary Hendershott 31:07
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I see that as some kind of mass hack into rooms step. Yeah. But it's like, I bet you didn't go backwards financially after that. Right. That's the beginning of like, I will not go back up with this. I will not put
Dia Bondi 31:24
Absolutely. Because it got to be kind of fun. Because I was you know, we said we you curse on the show. But walking away from that cart was a little bit of like a fucked up man moment. Yep. You will not tell me what to buy. I don't have to buy. I don't have to. So great. So we talked a little bit about money. Let's talk a little bit about feelings if we can. So what other perspectives beliefs, or ideas do women have to contend with? That makes it hard to sort of own a wealth goal? Because I think about there's a difference between a money goal and a wealth goal. I'm curious if you agree, and like what are the things get in the way of a sort of owning wealth goals,
Hilary Hendershott 32:11
my experiences, most women don't have wealth goals, off the cuff, having spoken to 1000s, maybe 28%, something like that. The feelings, you know, you could do a whole podcast on this, you could you could sell a very, a very high price mastermind just to grapple with all the shit women have to deal with when it comes to money. So first of all, it's not feminine, it's not okay to want it. It's not virtuous to have it. Like you have to maybe choose between being attractive and sexy and being wealthy financially well off. And that's not to say, I mean, there's Jennifer Aniston, right? Everyone knows she's attractive. She's She's wealthy, everyone knows she's attractive and wealthy. But, but it's like if you're dating in your mid 40s, or 50s or something, and you're worth a couple million dollars. It's like a problem. And people aren't talking about this, right? Because it's a problem because you have high expectations of him. It's a problem, because if he finds out, he might feel insecure. There's also like, if I'm wealthy, and my friend finds out, she might feel insecure, it might alter our friendship. So I have to eke it out, talk about it in little ways that test the waters to see what's going on for her about it. There's,
Dia Bondi 33:33
it's very interesting that you say that because even you know, talking with my network about these aren't necessarily personal wealth goals, but revenue goals in my business. I often run up against a wall, you know, dia, it's not all about money. Yeah, I get this one. Like, somehow, if I have money goals, it's all of a sudden all about money. And I'm like, Excuse me, have you met me? Do you know what I've been doing for 20 years? So why one doesn't cancel the other? You know, so
Hilary Hendershott 34:03
money? Sorry, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Yeah, if you walked into someone's kitchen, and they were making an organic green salad, and you said, Wow, I'm so excited to eat that looks so healthy. And they looked up at you and said, Well, you know, it's not all about being healthy. You would say you would go what are you talking about? Why are we eating salad then and not like meat lasagna? Like what is wrong with you? There's something going on up there right? So it's like when you say it's not it's not all about the money it's like you're causing cognitive dissonance in your mind because I promise you when I'm paying my bills and sending my tax guy my documents, it's all about the money. It's not 24/7 but there's times when it is 100% all about the money so
Dia Bondi 34:54
and and let it be so because it's all about the money in that moment doesn't cancel out all the Other things that are going on in the ecosystem that your money enables. Okay, so in your framework, say the name of your framework
Hilary Hendershott 35:08
I created. Yeah, I created a framework called The Seven Steps to wealth.
Dia Bondi 35:13
Right? And in your framework, you do have an ask component. Can you talk about where that fits in the in the steps? And can you talk about why it why it made it? Why it made the cut? Yeah. Oh,
Hilary Hendershott 35:27
it's critical. So what I did was when I received this download from the universe, Hillary, you must teach what you have learned. I said, Okay. Everyone says you have to make it simple. So I look back, literally, what did I do? Clearly, the first thing I did was I decided, and I shared with you that moment, you know, we talked about that earlier in this conversation. So you have to decide you have to decide to align yourself, your behaviors, your thoughts around growing your wealth. The second is speak. So you have to take an inventory of what are you saying about money? We're talking about this right now. Most people don't talk to money. They don't talk about money to anyone else. For the most part, we talk to ourselves, maybe our romantic partners about money, right? But what are you actually saying? The third is plan most people never get this far. So like I said, Money has a logistical, very operational side. The fourth is urn. And the fifth is ask. So ask is the bridge between the life you have now and the life that you want? Right,
Dia Bondi 36:25
beautiful, beautiful. So I say and ask like an auctioneer? Actually, since you and I spoke about it a couple of years ago, when I first launched it, it's evolved, because I've talked to you know, lots and lots of folks, I've given the keynote in the workshop a lot. And you know, I have decided that it is not just about helping women ask for more and get it. It's also about using asking as a success strategy. So I love that visual of like, bridging the gap between those two things you just mentioned. Beautiful. Yeah, yeah, one of
Hilary Hendershott 36:53
the things I do in my in my coaching course, I asked people to go get to go ask for things such that they hear no 100 times. And I know I I'm sad to say I don't think anyone's ever done it. But I promise you, if you go ask for something such that you hear no 100 times, you will not have the same life by the end of that project. Or that that that that program that you did when you started because you will gear Yes, so many times that you didn't expect to? And what kinds
Dia Bondi 37:25
of asks, are in the seven steps to wealth? Like what kinds of asks, are we talking about?
Hilary Hendershott 37:32
Well, I invite people to start by asking for their things that they don't really care about or need. So I invite you to go into a coffee shop and ask for a discount. Now you're gonna some of you have already left you'd like to shut off the podcast, you're like, I'm not going to do that. I would never ask I don't haggle. Okay. I mean, it's not a big deal, right? The person behind the counter can say yes. Or they can say no, the point is that you become someone who asks, you can ask for an upgrade at your hotel, you can ask for your neighbor to do a nanny share with you, you can ask someone to be your business partner, you can raise your prices, you can ask someone to be your client, you can ask your partner to do more of the household chores or hire a housekeeper. I mean, these are all asks if you look around at your life, the life that you've built the life that you already have, it's all a function of asks, you just maybe don't relate to yourself like an asker. But you are and sometimes asks don't sound like asks doesn't have to sound like can I have a discount? Sometimes it sounds like do you want to move in together? Sometimes it sounds like yeah, I'd like to buy that car, right? You just don't realize that you're creating something you're bringing something in your life that you didn't have before. And, you know, I'm sure you have much to say on this topic. i You're the resident expert on asking. I just think people people ask more than they think they do. And there are things that you will allow yourself to ask for, and I just invite you to build that muscle.
Dia Bondi 38:57
That's beautiful. What kinds of things do you find? We don't let ourselves ask for?
Hilary Hendershott 39:02
Um, gosh, I would imagine that's as individual as the human being itself. Let's look, let's look, let's look specifically at the topic of money. I coached a hairstylist and she said I haven't raised my prices for four years. And every time and not only that, but my customers, when they come in, they won't book their next appointment. So my schedule is all over the map. And I have three kids and I hate my life and I'm not making enough money. So the script we created for wit for her is you know, you're gonna want to get your next appointment book because I'm currently booking four to six weeks out. And by the way, the next time you come your price will be x and I made her say it to me like 20 times I made her say it in the mirror like 150 times and this might sound Elementary to many of you listening to this right. But the point is, it was the words that then created the schedule she wanted and the rate that she wanted, and she said she was shocked, she said so the first time I set it I was scared out of my mind. And the customer said, Okay. And by the 100th time she said I had no one didn't schedule and no one said no to my new rate. I said, You know what that means? I said you didn't raise it enough.
Dia Bondi 40:12
Of course, I mean, that's one of the core tenants and ask like an auctioneer, unless you get to know you left money on the table was so what I love about that is that I hear that ask that you're articulating as, as more of a statement actually then an ask, you're going to want to book your appointment now. And when you come next time, six to eight weeks, my rates will be x. So it's almost like, you know, we think of an Ask always as a question isn't always sometimes to be worded that way? Yes. It's a tell. It's it's claiming it's claiming a thing and then seeing what the outcome is.
Hilary Hendershott 40:47
Right? But unless you're physically forcing someone, it is fundamentally an Ask the person out still say no.
Dia Bondi 40:54
In that way, it is almost like we are asking ourselves first. And then asking the world, like asking that of ourselves will give myself permission to raise my rate? will I will I let myself do this? Will I ask, you know, will I? Is this? Is this okay with me? I get sometimes in my workshops, people asking me the question, I want to ask for x. But what if I'm, what if I'm delusional? What if I'm actually wacky, mate? What if I'm out of whatever I'm separated from? What's a realistic ask or not? And I? And I promise you are? Well, the thing is, is that you know, the, the my answer to that question is, if you can explain it, you can ask for it. Even if your explanation is as simple as I'm raising my rates in 2021.
Hilary Hendershott 41:45
Right? Can I have a discount on my cup of coffee? It's my birthday. just explained, and it doesn't matter.
Dia Bondi 41:55
So the we talked a little bit about what money is some of the fields around it, let's talk about Well, so what is wealth, and how might it be seen as different than money, the root
Hilary Hendershott 42:07
of the word wealth is well being. So wealth is well being and practically speaking, wealth is either investment, or business assets that you own that if and when you stop working, will pay for your life. Okay? So at some point, you'll lose the ability or willingness to work, whether it's your health or your mind, whatever, whatever that is, we now have 1020 30 years of your life to pay for, and you need something that throws off income to pay for your bills. So that's the wealth that I deal with on a daily basis. And you can make it work with a little, and you could also be unhappy with a lot. But to have wealth goals is critical. If you ever, ever want to achieve financial freedom, right? If you ever want to stop working, and if you want to be financially healthy, so it's it's the foundation of financial health. And when we start
Dia Bondi 43:06
to think in terms of wealth, not just dollars and cents, but when we start to think about in terms of money, or to think in terms of wealth, what changes for us?
Hilary Hendershott 43:18
The the focus becomes is this activity growing my net worth or is it shrinking my net worth. And then you act accordingly. You stop worrying about the details, though, I promise you, the lattes don't matter, I promise you, you know, unless you're making $40,000 a year but but it's the big decisions in your life that matter. It's the house that you buy, it's how you spend on cars, travel is the second most expensive thing for most human beings. And if you spend your life borrowing more money than you have to buy nice cars, you are hamstringing yourself forever, financially, just forever. That's a fact. And I just picked cars. There's lots of other ways you could do that, right. But for me, I've paid cash for cars for a decade now I just write a check, whatever that is, I'm not I just don't borrow money for that kind of thing. And I say to people, and they come into my office to talk about their retirement at some point, you stop thinking about the value of your accounts, like the just the sum of them, or even your net worth or your balance statement. And you start thinking about how much income can these assets pay me? Right? How much can I draw from this the principal balance of this account over my retirement, which is an undetermined amount of years, right? Like human longevity is a miracle of science. It's also like a financial problem, which is like a conflict, right? And so we want to spend from your assets in a sustainable regenerative way and so that, really, it doesn't matter how much is in your accounts. It matters how much you get to pay your bills with.
Dia Bondi 44:56
I just had a flash in my mind as you're talking of like money is like a bag of groceries on the counter. And wealth is like a garden.
Hilary Hendershott 45:04
That's funny, but like I should have asked you?
Dia Bondi 45:10
Well, I just I think about, like, you know, we think about how much money did I make this year? Or how much money do I have in my bank account? Or how much money you know, do I? Like that's like a finite thing. It's like it's a, it's a great tool, you know, it's a, it's a bag of groceries that you have to figure out how do I allocate this so that we can eat for but then a garden is like a thing you tend to a garden is what gives back to you on going and you can make decisions. It does influence, you know, the decisions that you make, to decide like, is it? Is it? Is it actually growing the garden? Is it nurturing the garden? Or is it depleting it? And that's
Hilary Hendershott 45:47
why I use that term regenerative and sustainable. That's exactly right. And that garden wouldn't be regenerative or sustainable if a herd of rhinos trampled it, right. And there's things that you can do to your money that are akin to a herd of rhinos trampling it, but if you continue to take from it in a sustainable rate, you can expect it to keep giving.
Dia Bondi 46:07
So this podcast is is a podcast for women with goals. If you've got if you if folks listening right now have a money goal, or a wealth goal. Where do they start?
Hilary Hendershott 46:19
I thought a lot about this question. And I don't mean to sound trite. But I really think the answer is you do it just like you do anything. And there's that saying, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time. And this game, this wealth game, what I've discovered is that it really is more of a mental game than an operational or logistical game. I promise you, you're smart enough, I promise you, you're educated enough, I promise you, you have enough time, I promise you, you can empower yourself by all of this, it's possible for you. And it really starts with okay, how can I get there? And if you can't get to, I'm going to be worth $5 million. By the time I'm 65. If you can't get there, right now, get into wonder wonder, well, what would it take? What would it take for me to be someone who completes my working years with a net worth of $10 million. That's the State of Wonder connects you to your inner being it connects you to that your souls whisper your intuition, right. And so I don't advocate like, I'm not a Nike coach, just do it. Right, because it's impossible. If that were, if just do it coaching work, we'd all be skinny and rich. And that's just it's just like is, so the mind is a tricky thing. But But and it might take a year or two years for you to coax and cultivate your mind into a possibilities machine when it comes to money. But I promise you, there's areas where you're already a possibilities machine. So how can you become more like that in this area?
Dia Bondi 47:48
I love that. And so I'd love to give our listeners a prompt right there. If you're walking around your house or in your neighborhood or you're in your car right now, you know, a hold on to a question for you might be something like, I wonder what it might feel like or wonder what it might be like to make 30% of your more than I do now. I wonder what it might feel like to be able to say I'm worth, you know, my net worth is $1 million. I wonder what about this idea of Wonder helps us put together a picture for ourselves and start to feel into a reality that is not yet true. But can be a possibility? Yeah, you can
Hilary Hendershott 48:25
wonder no matter what your reality is, there's no limitation on wonder. And that's the bridge between you being you've got you've constructed to be the human being you are now but neuroplasticity is real and you can engage it you can change your brain about how much you earn, how much you save, and who you are about money. I did it. I teach it you do to dia. And so it really is getting into like, Okay, I'm open to that.
Dia Bondi 48:50
So if it's the if it's far away, you know, if folks who are listening right now just tried to put you know, fill up their, their BMW with a tank of gas and instead had to walk home. It feels so far away. They've done the wondering, they have a picture and they've named their goal. How do we stay hooked into it to keep us engaged on the journey? Because it may feel small and bite size in the beginning? Am I wrong?
Hilary Hendershott 49:15
Well, I have a great deal of energy and a great deal of ambition. So I can only relate to being human being from that experience. And once I set my sights on a goal, I'm all systems go about it. So if you're there, and you are wondering, I wonder what it might be like to make 30% more, you know, treat your world like a laboratory. It's like the number of people you can ask, Hey, I make $125,000 Right now, what can I do to make 175? I mean, it's a it's a it's kind of a silly question. Really. It's not a common question. And I imagine your questions will evolve like what skill sets can I attain, who can I ask for a raise what other company can I work for? What other thing can I do with my time? Right? Like, there's, there's never a time or a place in life where you can't open up your mouth and ask someone who is willing to help. What can I do to get there and then practice, take baby steps or make those practice asks, figure out what it's gonna take to get to that next step, and continue on that way, because they grow exponentially.
Dia Bondi 50:23
Well, I love this idea of thinking of the world as your laboratory and you're running a bunch of experiments and and the results that you get, even if they're tiny, getting that discount, getting that, you know, free upgrade on a hotel room, you know, for your next business trip, or, you know, asking for a larger coffee for free because it's your birthday, these little experiments, we run and get small rewards can be a hook to keep us engaged in the journey, because pretty soon you can look backwards and go, I came pretty far. I got a lot of things. Yeah, little,
Hilary Hendershott 50:54
the little milestones really add up, they really do. There was a time I was terrified to be in the room alone with an investor, I was afraid that everyone knew more about stock markets than me. And I spent years just creating my own script library and learning and studying and saying it in the mirror. And now i There's no one I I have supreme confidence in that area. Right? I just took it on like an area that needed to be developed. It's the same as anything else.
Dia Bondi 51:20
So you got to step five in your framework, which is ask what are what six and seven?
Hilary Hendershott 51:27
Invest and protect? Yeah, protect what is protect, say more about protect. So it's two things. It's the very practical stuff. It's insurance. I don't sell insurance, but people need insurance, umbrella insurance, renter's insurance, homeowners insurance, car insurance, life insurance, and then it's also an estate estate, your estate planning, get your estate planning done your revocable living trust your wills, things like that. But it's also this really extensive. Like I say, don't do dumb shit with your money. Because we've all we've all met someone who had an empire and lost it all. And in every case, it's because they didn't have one of these seven steps in place. So they put everything on the table. Once you have something, don't put stuff on the table on the gambling table on the roulette table, you know what I'm saying? Metaphorically speaking, that you can't afford to lose. It's why I meet people now who have all their entire net worth in one stock. It's all in Amazon. It's all in Tesla. Oh, but Hillary, it's been so good to me. Yes, but you can't afford to lose it, you've got to take the portion you can't afford to lose off the table. And so that's just that that's real in that example, but it's metaphorical in other areas of your life, be like a squirrel saving nuts for the winter, you know, put them in the tree and then don't expose them to the light of day.
Dia Bondi 52:42
So this last couple of years, I've done some of my own mindset work around money and I was hoping that you could just I could share my money story with you and you could just meet me and and and see if there's any coaching questions that you could offer me? Yeah, let's do it. Cool. I am so happy to put myself on the line for our listeners and just share a little bit and get be on the receiving end of this stuff. Because I'm in it with you. I'm in it to win it with you. So my money his story is that money is misery. You know, in when I was a kiddo, my grandfather who was kind of a hero, he sold his business. I don't know how old I was, but I was probably Elementary School ish, you know? 11 or 12. Maybe he sold his business. And I never got why that sent him to bed with depression for a long time. I was so weird to me. I thought this guy sold his business I didn't even know that was a thing you could do. And I thought he probably made a lot of money. And we sold a well upstanding local insurance company with his name on it. And he went to bed and the story was Greg was depressed because he's sold his business. Even though we've walked away the pile of cash. So all I could think of was while he sold his business how awesome but no, it was misery. I watched him suffer. On the I'm in our own household, my family's business ran from a desk in our small house. And it was a construction company. A small one and always like every single problem in the business. All the problems I could hear it all like at a volume 11 all the time. And I kind of over time God that more money was more problems we'd have a you know our family would have a great year and that was the year something wild had happen and everything that got built got rained on and destroyed and was put at risk or you know there will be a lawsuit that came from a general contractor after a long you know condo project Saturday. On the you know, there was just there would years that work great work torn down often was more money, more problems, the more money that came in, the more exposure we had. And the fallout of that was nearly violent in our household. So for me, I will I have always not cared about money, you know, I could I can go shopping at Target and walk away from my, from my cart. But I also told myself a story that I'm not going to worry about money, and it's more about, it's not all about the money. It's going to be about experiences, and I'm gonna, you know, just make enough, that's fine. Because enough wasn't misery. A lot was a risk.
Hilary Hendershott 55:46
Yeah. And you limited your income capacity. Significantly when you said that. Perfect, perfect. Okay, good. So part of this is really separating the what happened from the story that you told about what happened. One of the super interesting things, what I did when I was recovering financially was I went back and I interviewed my mom. And I thought we were going to talk about how poor we were. And she actually shared with me that she's like a millionaire. And I was shocked. I was shocked. I mean, literally gobsmacked. And what I got was, my child mind, made up a story about what I saw happen. And that story didn't have bearing on what so and so, so interesting that I'm living in this world and like perpetuating this world that was suffering about it. That was very real to me. And it turns out was just of fantasy, like, like a narrative. And so um, so you know, what I heard in the story about your grandfather was he sold his business and he was depressed. And what you said, about it was money is misery. Like there's a link between his depression and the selling the business. Is that true? Cap? Do you know that that's true?
Dia Bondi 57:06
Um, yes, I do know it's true. Okay. But it's not. I I. But it's not because of, I think, I know sort of why, but it was weird to me that the reason the stories I heard in our, in our, the logic that was explained to me about why he was so miserable, was actually not associated to money. You know, the price he sold the business to it was something else. But identity. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was a heavy thing. But for me, I was like, yes, but he just sold his like, but he just had this windfall, like, yes, but yes, but and, and to me, I just, I couldn't equate the receipt. It just didn't make sense.
Hilary Hendershott 57:55
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's all of that. And then when we come out of childhood, once that story is concrete, for us, it's all we can see. It has to perpetuate, because it is the narrative, right? And so if you look in your life, what are your behaviors in life with money and with your loved ones that reinforce money as misery?
Dia Bondi 58:16
I can't think of any off the top of my head because I've kind of made money not matter until these last couple of years. Yeah, I've just said, are the decisions good enough and safe. And if they're above safe, they're risky, above safe, not below safe, if they're above safe. Like, it matters just till it's enough, right? No more,
Hilary Hendershott 58:47
right? So you'll find yourself and those of you listening, this will be powerful for you as well. You'll either find yourself in your own money operating system or you're finding yourself being completely abjectly opposed to it. You won't go there you won't be that if your parent was if your parent was crazy about money and a workaholic, you're going to be a starving surfer artist, right? Like this kind of a thing and dia that's what you're describing is it's just because you know, I would have been shocked if you said you are miserable in your marriage financially because you just are so happy you're just so Boolean right you're so your your energy is so positive so but it fits. So you but there's no free you lack of freedom to get close to the topic of money or pursue it or think critically about it or make tough decisions about it. Right, because that's all in this ball called misery.
Dia Bondi 59:44
Yeah, we've made all of the like, you know, we've made my husband and I are we married for 21 years? Yeah. And we are you know, financially healthy, we are building wealth. We make all the decisions. We've got the trust in place and The insurance and we've got, you know, automatic transfer into our 401k. And we got the step set up, because I'm self employed, we got all the things, all the mechanics are good, but it's kind of it's more like a Honda than a Mercedes, do you know what I mean? Because I've been like, oh, a Mercedes goes too fast. We can't drive two rows. Yeah, yes.
Hilary Hendershott 1:00:20
Right. So then, so then I take the position, because I've studied neuroplasticity, about how to change your brain is to engage the reality of money, at the same time as the mindset of money. So what I would do with you, and what you could do is to set a goal, set the goal for the Mercedes, right? And then start taking the actions that have the Mercedes appear and watch what shows up. And it's in those moments, those forks in the road, that coaching or change or insights or neuroplasticity is possible, right? Because you're going to have massive resistance.
Dia Bondi 1:01:03
Well, it's very interesting, because what we started this conversation with around when we start What's that feel like? And you said, you know, you're, you're going to be doing things that your body doesn't want you to do. And I love that you name that that's a little crossroad. So for folks who are listening, and like I'm even dry mouth thinking about it, it's it's thrilling to think about it for myself and I have been doing some of the work. You're mentioning Hillary, like separating the actions from the feeling in the body and being like, oh, there it is. Let's take it for a walk instead of instead of looking the other way, or like instead of making the behaviors that continue to reinforce the status quo, you know, but yeah, noticing that, when you bump up against that feeling, it doesn't have to turn into a behavior.
Hilary Hendershott 1:01:49
Yes, it doesn't have to turn into a behavior or an emotion or a body sensation. And I'm not making your body sensations wrong. Like certainly those happen to me as well. It's just that when you get really observant about money's actual nature, there's a there's a place for you on the other side of this, and the only way I know how to engage it is to again, create an environment where the money is happening in a way that you didn't believe it could. And have you see that the misery doesn't have to be present, where you can look back and say, You know what? There there was misery and sadness in my family. And there were events about money that happened. And the two aren't necessarily related at all. Like a different person with a different history and a different life would have sold his insurance agency and done something different. Like I don't know.
Dia Bondi 1:02:44
Yeah, not gone to bed for two years. Yeah. Like,
Hilary Hendershott 1:02:47
like, depression is a deeply seated thing. And, you know, like, there's all kinds of consequential Is that even a word? A confluence of events and, and life experiences that impact us? It's just the children's minds are very simple, very simple.
Dia Bondi 1:03:05
When we talked when we started today, you know, I asked the question, what is money and we in that part of the discussion, you know, you named that we put a lot of meaning on it. That isn't that that is from us, not from the inherently the thing.
Hilary Hendershott 1:03:22
Yeah. Well, any meaning you have on money is is false, meaning money doesn't have meaning. Like I said, it's literally just a conversation. It's a barter thing. And so, you know, but that doesn't help us move past strongly held childhood superstitions. The first step is to admit that it's a child, a childish superstition. And I felt like I got conked on the forehead when my mom said, I'm not broke. I'm not broke. What do you mean? I was a great saver. That's why I'm not broke. What's wrong with you?
Dia Bondi 1:03:57
Yeah, that's great. And was that was that you said you're gobsmacked by that? Was that healing for you? In some way?
Hilary Hendershott 1:04:03
It was like it took me like a month to even be able to speak it out loud, but it was like I really had to grapple with I made that shit. Oh, yeah. Like from nothing.
Dia Bondi 1:04:15
That's so good. Yeah. So listen, thank you for that and I will take your offer to me and and use it and reflect on it in my own life, my own money story and wealth story as I continue to march toward the goals that I've named and claimed and I'm, you know, trying to make the decisions and make the asks necessary to move me toward them. So Hillary, what where can people find you and what can they do with you?
Hilary Hendershott 1:04:41
You can find me in your podcast player at profit boss radio, you can find all the things about what I do, which is high net worth comprehensive wealth management. And I also offer profits Coaching for Business Owners. If your business has at least $50,000 in revenue. We have a year long transformational program. And that's all at him. Hillary hendershot.com Hillary has one L hinder shot has two T's
Dia Bondi 1:05:05
excellent, Hillary it's been an absolute joy to have you with us today. I know we went over time and there's a reason
Hilary Hendershott 1:05:12
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity
Dia Bondi 1:05:19
this podcast is a production of Dia Bondi communications and is produced and music ified by Arthur Leon Adams the third aka Baby A. You can like share rate and subscribe at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Find us at DIA bondi.com or follow us on Instagram at the DIA Bondi show. Want to shoot us a question for the show? Call us at 341-333-2997