Embracing Your Polarities

On The Dia Bondi Show, we love to talk about polarities.  Our personal contradictions that we carry with us all the time where we can embrace our full set of selves. We can do more, be more and join more to accomplish more of what we want, while using all of us to do what matters the most to us.

In this episode, join us in discussion about your polarities with Sarah Marshank, author of Being Selfish and creator of Selfistry.

In Sarah’s Selfistry practice, she invites us to explore the 3 realms (and not all of it is self):

  • What is Selfistry?
  • The practice of embracing all our polarities.
  • The role of polarities in the world.  Looking at the fact that we may not be able to get away from them unless we embrace them and talk about how.

Understand what kind of speaker you are as an approach to having a deeper experience of yourself.

Learn more about Sarah Marshank and sign up for her Selfistry community.  

Check out her latest book, Being Selfish

The FIRST 5 people to join the Selfistry Community and mention this podcast, will receive a signed copy of Sarah's memoir, Being Selfish.

Learn more about Dia Bondi and what she’s been up to.

Follow the show on Instagram

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On The Dia Bondi Show, we love to talk about polarities.  Our personal contradictions that we carry with us all the time where we can embrace our full set of selves. We can do more, be more and join more to accomplish more of what we want, while using all of us to do what matters the most to us.

In this episode, join us in discussion about your polarities with Sarah Marshank, author of Being Selfish and creator of Selfistry. Find the full episode here.

In Sarah’s Selfistry practice, she invites us to explore the 3 realms (and not all of it is self):

  • What is Selfistry?
  • The practice of embracing all our polarities.
  • The role of polarities in the world.  Looking at the fact that we may not be able to get away from them unless we embrace them and talk about how.

Understand what kind of speaker you are as an approach to having a deeper experience of yourself.

Learn more about Sarah Marshank and sign up for her Selfistry community.  

Check out her latest book, Being Selfish

The FIRST 5 people to join the Selfistry Community and mention this podcast, will receive a signed copy of Sarah's memoir, Being Selfish.

Learn more about Dia Bondi and what she’s been up to.

Follow the show on Instagram

Sarah Marshank  00:02

Let's say this is this buried self that's been screaming I want to play it's like if you give that one some room to breathe and assure the other one that you're not going to bury them then the self starts to get a lot they start to play nice. See baby how she starts calling you all the ones


Dia Bondi  00:48

Hello, everybody, welcome to the Dia Bondi Show a big huge podcast for your goals. I'm Dia Bondi, and I'm on a mission to help you ask for more and get it resource your dreams and get to your goals faster. Today on the show, we are going to be talking to Sarah Marcia bank about polarities. And I'm just gonna say right now, we are going to get woo woo today. So Sarah is the creator of self history. And she's perfect to have on the show today, to dive into embracing all yourselves. You if you're new to the show, maybe you should know that baby a who we're gonna hear from a justice second. And I like to talk about polarities, those opposites within us that have to live together. And we're going to embrace both of them and make them work, work, work, work work for us. So we're going to talk about polarities today, with Sara Marsh shank. Really, because I want to, I want you to embrace all of yourselves, not just the two that might be the most polar opposite of one another, but all of yourselves, to help you to gather them together so that they can help you all of those selves help you get where you want to go and support you on your journey to getting there. So before we dive into that, I have to say, Hello, baby a,


Arthur  02:06

Hey, do I contain multitudes?


Dia Bondi  02:08

We are going to talk some polarities today it's going to be so it's going to be so good. And it is going to be Whoo, I'm going to tell you that I'm gonna tell you what it's gonna be. Well, we're gonna get there in a second. But I do have some stuff I want to talk about first. Yeah, let's do it. So, um, I have been doing a lot of communications work lately. And it's just been on my mind, this idea of how I think about mastery, you know, whenever I talk about mastery in my career to impact workshops, or when I kick off a new coaching, engagement, you know, I want to orient my clients. And I want to orient all of you listening right now to when I think about communications mastery, what I mean, so all of my communications work is really focused at helping helping you use communications, as a strike point for your leadership, a tool for advancing and accelerating your mission and goals inside your organization, you know, inside your own leadership, and I like to work when stakes are high, there's a change happening in the organization, you have a new goal that you're trying to lean into your fundraising for your startup, you're heading into your series A or Series B and like your voice matters, not just, it's not just important for you to be skillful, or to think about communications as a skill, but it is a tool to accelerate you. And I get I get sometimes in my bigger setting workshops, you know, the conversation wants to be around like, I mean, this is this, a little bit of an exaggeration, wants to be around, where should I put my hands and, you know, tips and tricks, people want tips and tricks. And I'm gonna tell you that like, my definition of mastery, and what I'm going for with you all, is not about tips and tricks, although I have some and I can give those at the heart of it, though, is my definition of communications mastery. I want to share that with all of you right now. And then pose a question. So when I think about communications, mastery, there are three things that need to be present for me to say, Ah, you are on the path to mastery, or you have mastery in this area. And the first thing that needs to be present as a listener of you, right, like as your coach and listener is, are you speaking from the heart? Are you actually speaking to me in a way that I can sense that you are in alignment with who you actually are? Does that mean that you're comfortable? Not necessarily, does that mean that it's easy because it's aligned with who you are. And in fact, sometimes it's quite the opposite for you to actually speak in a way that's aligned to who you are and how you see the world is sometimes actually a courageous act, not just in content, but in also in how you deliver it, where you place importance in the message you're trying to communicate into the world, the willingness to disagree or to invite the world in to see seeing through your eyes. So do I have a sense that you're actually speaking from the heart? That's one? If I can tell that's present, that's the first component of mastery. The second one is control. Are you actually in control in the moment, not in control of the moment, because in a communications context, you're talking to human beings. And if you're in conversation, if you're standing on stage or in the boardroom, there are things that are out of your control. The question is, Are you do you have control in the moment, meaning not? Are you controlling the ocean? But are you a boat that can stay upright and rise and fall with the ocean? So there's that do? Do I have a sense that you're that you have control in the moment? Or is the moment controlling, you have to have those two things speaking from the heart, and then control our present? I know, you've got to have the three components of mastery. And the third component is impact. Do I actually feel an impact? Or do I have a sense of impact from you? Do I feel impacted by you. And when that's present along with the other two, you really do have mastery. Now, if you notice, none of those are about robotic perfection and polish. None of those are about having the absolute perfect story and script nailed down to the absolute, you know, enth degree of detail. This is about these elements of you being present, so that I can get a sense that you're actually here with us. Are you speaking from who you are? Are you in control in the moment, instead of letting the moment control you? And lastly, are you actually having an impact on me, that's what we're heading for all the time. So when you're thinking about using communications as a tool and a strike point for your own leadership, this is the way you can know whether you're being masterful or not, if you can sense those three things. And then the question becomes, which one of yourselves which self in you, serves you the most when you have to step into those critical communications moments and have the impact you need to have in order to advance your mission, your goals in your career?


Arthur  07:11

Hey, it's baby a just checking in to let you know that if you are a fan of what we're doing here on the Deobandi show, there are a bunch of really important ways that you can help support us. First of all the basics you can like, subscribe, rate and review on your favorite podcast platform. You can also share us with your friends on social media, or hey, even the old fashioned way, just tell somebody in person. If you have a question for dia, or you want to give us some feedback, you can give us a call at 341-333-2997 and we might just play your voicemail on a future show.


Dia Bondi  07:47

Okay, so let me set up Sarah Marsh shank for everyone here and Arthur, you've not met Sara before have you know you have


Arthur  07:55

I think she came into our old office at the clock factory.


Dia Bondi  07:57

That's right. That's right. Okay, so let me set this up a little bit. So Sarah Marsh shank is the founder of self history, which is a system in a community. It's really designed to help cultivate mastering the art of just being a good human in really troubled times. And she integrates theory and practice from Eastern and Western theology, philosophy, psychology and biology. I don't know how. And in that practice, and Sarah boldly brings self development into the modern age. She is unapologetic about it. Sarah is the author of being selfish my journey from escort to monk to grandmother and a facilitator of personal development experiences around the self a street practice. And I know Sarah, because she and I are both activators in the CEO, community and network. Sarah, I'm so glad to have you with us today.


Sarah Marshank  08:56

Thanks, honey. Good to be here.


Dia Bondi  08:58

It's so so great. I've been waiting for the right moment. I knew when we were creating the Deobandi show when you know baby and I were sort of kicking around the content and like, what was it? What was it about? What was it gonna be? I was like, I knew there was gonna be a conversation in here with Sarah Marsh shank. And we I think we picked the exact right topic to talk about with you.


Sarah Marshank  09:17

I trust you on that one.


Dia Bondi  09:19

So good. So we and I already set up for you know, folks listening know that, you know, we if you're new listener, or if you've listened before, you know that polarities are something that we've been interested on this show and we talk a little bit about, we talk a little bit we haven't always used the word polarities, like we started by using the word contradictions, like things that we think of as contrary to one another. But actually, if we can use both of them, they can be actually very useful to us. And I wanted to invite you on because you're sort of an expert in selves.


Sarah Marshank  09:57

What yourselves have to do with polarities. Well, we're


Dia Bondi  10:00

gonna get there. So let's let's start with what is your? What is the story that brought you to self history? Just to give folks an orientation here?


Sarah Marshank  10:13

Yeah, so the story basically started with the self. Imagine that, and the Sara self, living her life and graduating high school and going off to college and meeting the big, bad, crazy world, and it not turning out to be exactly how she thought it was gonna be. And so, as I'm sure all the listeners here have their own kind of seeking journey to find out what their life's about, or what they really want to do individuation, whatever you want to call it. And so my journey, my quest began, you know, in my 20s, around figuring out how to be my best self, how to be my happiest self. And, you know, we're raised in the West. So where did I go, I went to psychology, and philosophy, I went to my really cool professors at the University of Michigan who were like leftover hippies, from the 60s, I went to college in the 80s. And, and got really open to some phenomenal ideas about what it means to be human. And then somewhere in my 20s, I got turned on to Buddhism. And I realized that all the fixing I was trying to do to myself, based upon Western ideas, all really beautiful and valuable, but not quite hitting the mark. Then I heard about this Buddhism thing that basically said, there is no self haha. And so then my journey, I was like, Whoa, you know, so then my journey went east. And for the next 10 years, in my 30s, I spent a decade doing basically Buddhist practices of meditation, some yoga and pranayama. And basically pushing the self away and trying to find this no self thing that the Buddha promised will really bring us happiness. And so I did that for 10 years. And you know, what, the Buddhists were right? That no self plays really does exist, and it is liberating. And yet, there was still the self around lingering around afterwards. So I got curious about talking about polarities, right, the ultimate polarity self and no self, then I got curious about, well, maybe, maybe they're not opposed to each other. Maybe there's an integration here, that could happen. And so then I spent my 40s. Working on that integration. And now in my 50s, I'm actually supporting people primarily in the West, you know, Western, Western culture and societies to understand the beautiful relationship between self and no self, that it doesn't have to be either or, and that, in fact, the no self can really inform our selfhood in a way that from my perspective, the world really needs right now. Because the self is a little bit out of control with greed and delusion.


Dia Bondi  13:04

So when I talk about you to my friends, I mean, I do all kinds of positive gossip about you, Sarah, but one thing I do say about you to my friends, oh, Sarah, she's she's my friend who sat on a cushion for 10 years. Yeah. And the outcome mean, my shortcut is, you know, the outcome is health history. Yeah. Yeah. So what is self history.


Sarah Marshank  13:28

So it's basically a very simple and elegant integrative system. That gives you a framework for understanding self and no self in the way that we just spoke about it really simply, and, and within that framework, I guide people towards that experience and realization and understanding of no self without having to go sit on a cushion for 10 years. And then we also get curious about how to integrate the self into that. And as you know, with any polarity, that's the challenge, it's not about balancing them, it's about inhabiting them. So how can I be a self in a no self at the same time? Well, self history, self history gives you the support to figure that out for yourself because it looks different for everybody. And I call that artistry. It's the artistry of the self.


Dia Bondi  14:19

So can you talk a little bit about the realms because I've had a little experience with self history and you know, I know realms are core to it and then we'll talk a little bit about self and selves. Cool.


Sarah Marshank  14:31

So the framework is basically a Trinity one of the most elegant numbers and systems in our you know, in our library of systems basically and those three realms are self DHA, right? That's where we spend most of our time. And the no self rom I call source because it really is when you get to know self it really is the mystery the holy Sacred Divine. Oh my god, you know, you call it energy. You could call it Great Spirit God at all. Jesus, whatever you want to call it, it's that thing. And then the integrator is the realm of what I call the witness, which is our capacity to really step back and objectively without becoming a self or no self, to really step back and just sit as this awareness that can help us guide the inhabitants of the other two realms.


Dia Bondi  15:22

So, here's a funny question. How many selves? Do we have


Sarah Marshank  15:27

a throw back at you how many selves you have dia?


Dia Bondi  15:31

Well, one of the things I love talking to you the things that when you and I are just in conversation, I, what I feel actually makes me choked up what I've experienced talking to you, is that you talk to all of my selves, you literally will say, Oh, she's really tired right now or that one? You'll save that one to me, you know, is that language that you know that you use? Like? Or is it just something that hits me? Yeah, like, you'll say, like, Oh, that one is tired, or she's really having a good time right now. Or it seems like that one might be very useful for you right now. Or she's somebody that might need to be coming out from the shadows, or that one would be great square on stage right now. Like all these ones that I get to have in, you know, through your lens. And, and this is why I wanted to bring you on the show. Because as our listeners walk around the planet, and think about managing the complexities of their own lives, they think about the goals that they have you all listening right now thinking about the vision that you have for your life, you know, that serves all yourselves? Like how do we get to use all of ourselves and not say that one gets to be here? And that one does not? That one's not useful? And this one's important. And that one, it did have it like that we have to pick one. And that's the thing. Yeah, so


Sarah Marshank  16:57

I'm going to make a gross generalization right now about let's see psychological therapeutic lenses in the West, in general, they will favor the language of parts. So you have this identity, you think you're somebody, right? You have this selfhood, your significant you You're, you're unique, and you're an individual, and blah, blah, blah, blah, and and you have these parts, right, so the the little girl or you have the part that hear, you'll start to hear the polarities, again, because they exist in the cell phone, you have the one that loves to go out and hang out with people. And then you have one who wants to just stay home and eat, you know, you have one that wants to get married and have kids and then you have one that wants to be alone and be free. And all these cells, I call themselves because I find it's just easier to be in relationship with them, with myself with my my friends, my people, my clients, because it gives each part their own story, their own permission to exist. And so what you're talking about is when I work with people, my own self included, I make room for all of them. But here's the thing, and this is where Western therapies and psychologies are a little bit they're coming on board now integrating more of, of Eastern ideas, but in general, they don't even bring in the realm of source of the realm of the witness. They just work with those selves to manage them. And what I'm suggesting is, what if you actually had a realization of the no self, and your capacity to stand back and just look at all yourselves and go, Whoa, check out that house full of madness, right? How would you orient toward them? And how would you make decisions about what you're wanting? Or what your what direction? You're going to go? Yeah,


Dia Bondi  18:42

so So one question we've been asking our guests is, you know, what are what polarities Do you have? And we didn't frame it in the self history set up. But like, what polarities Do you walk around with all day and instead of saying this is the good part of me and this is the part of me that's a pain in the ass. You can you can say this is the part of me that these are the two parts of me that are feeling like opposites but but here's what's good about both of them. Here's why I like having those those polarities within me, I recognize them. I use them. I own them. I fall in love with them. I support them. I let them be here. Yeah. And so we actually had a few folks call in with their polarities and baby a cut us together a montage we'd like to share with you of people talking about their polar selves.


Sarah Marshank  19:28

Love it. Let's hear.


Caller  19:31

Hi, this is Al here's my contradiction. I just figured out that I'm a leader and a doer, as well as an introvert. This has helped me get a hell of a lot of things done in my life. And also look around me and process what I see into poetry. Thanks. Hi, this is Maya and I am a combative mediator. And what I like about this is the combative part of me, is my fire. It keeps me question and challenging everything and in some ways kind of represents my life force. While the mediator in me forces me to always be compassionate, and to strive for finding balance, thanks, bye. I'm reading my contradiction. I'm a logical feeler. What I like about that is that I have a rational framework that helps me stay safe, process a lot of information and helps me and others move through the world making well digested database decisions, the feeler in me. It's that humans and all their beautiful irrationalities make up the world. It's unique, personal and messy. It also helped me drop into life beyond just humans, and beyond just this generation of life. Hi dia. This is Amy Harrington from the passion exes project. And I love being a sensitive warrior. I can go head to head with anyone, no matter how tough they are when I'm standing up for something I believe in. But I'm also very sensitive, which allows me to be empathetic to what people need to get to a place where we both feel satisfied with the outcome by Hi, this is Arthur viver. And I'm a laid back overachiever. I like this because I can get a lot done, but I managed to do a lot of look at me first. And I give myself time to fuck off which is important. Aaron Sorkin said it best you call it procrastinating? I call it thinking hydia. It's Maria Ross. And I would say that I am a rebellious rule follower. And what I like about that is that I question everything. I never take no for an answer. And I constantly try to find new ways of doing things. But my rule follower side gives me guardrails. It gives me a strategy and a structure to follow. So I know when I'm coloring outside the lines, and it also enables me to know when and how I can break the rules. This is fun. Take care. Bye. Very cool.


Dia Bondi  22:05

So how does that hit you?


Sarah Marshank  22:06

Love it. I love it beautiful examples of people who are able to inhabit those inner contradictions polarities paradox. I'm curious about people who have one side really strong but aren't in touch with the other side. Like what happens then? You know, I think that's yeah,


Dia Bondi  22:25

and that's the invitation I think for us to like say they all get to belong, they all can serve at different times. They're all they all get to play, and to not accept one and reject and judge another.


Sarah Marshank  22:41

Yeah, and I would even go one step further. It's not just that they get to play. It's that that in order for, let's say, you preference, being a rules follower, and any freedom or nonconformity just scares the shit out of you. And you won't go there. That in order for you to actually be a, let's say, a a Integris rule follower or a mature rule follower, really grounded rule follower, you have to have integrated, some rebelliousness, because they they feed off each other. No, none of those traits exist alone. And so if we can access the other trait in the polarity, and again, like you said, we have to find the valuable other we can't say like, you know, oh, she, there's, there's the rule follower. And then there's the total loser, right, you're making a judgment about the total, you have to say there's the rule follower, and then there's the spontaneous one, and they both have high value. And if we don't learn to access those inside of ourselves, we project the other one outside of ourselves. And then we make that one wrong and bad. And that's a lot of that's a lot of the root of the polarization in our country right now. You know, so it's interesting and, and I really feel for people who can't access that other poll in themselves so that some of the work that we do in self history is like what would it feel like for the rule follower to let the spontaneous one the rebellious one play and in a safe contained place? We don't be we all love be reckless. And then all of a sudden something starts to blossom. When that is access and the rule flower rule follower, say that fast 10 times gets to actually show up in a more grounded way more beautiful way. Yeah.


Arthur  24:27



Dia Bondi  24:28

what stops us from embracing that other side?


Sarah Marshank  24:32

Wow. I think for everybody's different, sweetie. I think it's, I mean, it's a beautiful question. I think part of it is just the way we're raised. We know we all we all have a lot of indoctrination and training or who knows maybe it's in our genetics. There's a lot of reasons that were built the way we're built. I think the more useful question question is, is how can we don't get curious about it? And and get to know ourselves a little better so we can become more artful humans rather than rigid and Stuck humans.


Dia Bondi  25:01

And when we do, what does that give us?


Sarah Marshank  25:05

Well, for me, I would say it gives us access to our full humanity, which includes the no self realm as well. And when we access our full humanity, I was listening to Joanna Macy last night, just a brief clip from her from like, I don't know, seven years ago, and she said, when we really access our full humanity, it's not that we all of a sudden feel like we have to care for the world, or the planet or each other. We just naturally hear the cries of humanity and of life on the planet, and we're moved. It's not a should. Right. So that to me, that's what happens.


Dia Bondi  25:42

How does this help us reach our goals? This is a big podcast for women with goals for folks with goals. How does how does having? How does accessing all our selves? Do you call it access it? Like, what do you call that? Is it? Yeah, like that? We're finding finding and sort of making space for all ourselves? Has it helped us reach our goals?


Sarah Marshank  26:03

That's a great question. I think the first thing it does is it invites us to pause and just look at the goals we have right now. So we take a deep breath, and we go, let's examine which selves have those goals? And do they really represent the goals of might integrate itself, we could call her. So there's some exploration and investigation, which actually can be super fun. And what I say to clients is, it's likely that your more authentic goals are not far off from the ones you claim right now. It's just that there's some like, attunement, that wants to happen for you really to step into those, and own those and take action on those. And that's what we do in self esteem. Yeah, I


Dia Bondi  26:45

have a client right now, in my communications coaching practice, who's really exploring? What do I want now, and it almost is for It's almost scary and risky to hear, for this client to hear this client say out loud, what they want, that isn't what they're used to saying they want. Wow, you know, like a different and I can hear this client, fighting with letting a part or letting apart. So I'm using the language of parts, but letting a self that has been crowded out for a really long time, have a little bit of stage time. And what's getting seen as a little bit like, there's a struggle of like talking that self out of what that self wants, because it's not in a line to what the last 10 years has been. The thing that has been the thing that was supposed to be wanted. Does that make sense?


Sarah Marshank  27:46

Yes. And thank God, this person has you. Because here's where yeah, here's where it comes in, where we can help each other make space for those and hold each other and say, It's okay for you to change, you can change your mind, how many of us change our minds in 2020? About what well, it's


Dia Bondi  28:02

almost even more like a like a yes, and then a change because it's sort of like this new thing that wants to get wanted this new self that has a different desires or similar ones, but they're, they're the rationale for what's important within them, you know, they're looking at it differently, is sort of screaming to have that live. And there's, it there's, there's a there's this sort of immediate, you know, temptation to like, have to pick one, like, it's this or that it's I go all in or I you know, take a cruise, it's either I'm, you know, totally this or I become a hobo or I'm like, I quit everything and didn't you know, follow my dream to be a musician one day, or I like, build the next, you know, thing. So it's like this either or, and it's like, no, actually, what you're talking about the thing that you want, it's just almost a different motivations. Something else is getting needing to be satisfied for by this new self that's showing up that actually, if we look can get satisfied in just a slightly different version of what you're saying you want right now. I don't know. Maybe I'm talking circles here. But it's like, it's not. It's this is why I want to talk about polarities because it's not necessarily a pick one and the other one has to go away. It's a both and


Sarah Marshank  29:27

no, it's always a both and yeah, but sometimes because we live in this linear realm, sometimes you can't do both at once Sure, right. Sometimes you have to you have to decide is a chocolate or vanilla, you know, and you're like, Well, can I have like yellow or something emerge? You know, and it's like so but but by knowing that you're not then dissing chocolate when you choose vanilla, there's more willingness like your client let's say this, this buried self that's been screaming I want to play it's like if you give that one some some room to breathe and assure The other one, that you're not going to bury them, then the cells start to get a lot, they start to play nice Axi baby, how she starts


Dia Bondi  30:07

calling you all the ones this one gets to come and that and let the other one know that like you don't have to go away, but we're gonna like hang out here for a second together and and yeah, it doesn't always have to be a total. I mean I think there there are choices to be made when you look at the selves that might inform how you articulate what your next goals are, or or even if the goal is known and agreed upon by all the selves, you know, how you let those cells help you get there.


Sarah Marshank  30:44

Yeah, so beautiful. And then just extrapolate that to imagining all the humans all, you know, almost a billion of us ourselves in this one big organism. Imagine if we learn to play nice with each other, you know, that's the opportunity there is to recognize that you actually you're not against me, you're just holding another pole. And then we can use this in our country for sure. And I have that pole inside me too. Right? Now, I may not live it the same way, I may not enacted the same way. But hey, if you recognize my self inside of you, you might not enact it, and maybe, maybe there would be a middle ground. You know, so as


Dia Bondi  31:23

folks walk around the earth with their goals and their minds and their hearts, and they're looking for accessing other parts of themselves to help them achieve them? How can you carry the witness with you, that realm with you sort of how do you use it without stepping into the self as you practice practice? Necessarily? Like?


Sarah Marshank  31:44

That's a good question. You know, the witness really correlates with what's become very popular in mindfulness practices. And, and what I would say is, it's the place inside of us that really can just be an all the selves, it's like this sense, and we work we do visualizations, and we do art stuff and movement stuff to like, get the sense of like, all yourselves running around like lunatics around you, and you're just sitting there oming, or you're just sitting up, but you're not, you're not dissing them, you're not pretending they're not there, you're just not attending to them, you're just attending to being the witness or awareness, you could say, and it's super relaxing, and it's super regulating for the nervous system. And you're able to get a better perspective on all your different selves and see that you're not this, you know, integrated human in the way that we thought we have been, right, I know who I am, I'm Sarah, and I'm a daughter, and I'm a grandmother and mother. And it's like, whoa, Sarah, chill, like, sit in that witness chair and take a look. And you'll see your a lot of other things as well, which can be super fun. And especially if you live a long enough life, you can explore, you know, emphasizing and, and allowing for different selves to take the lead, so to speak a different, you know, stages of your life, how beautiful is that you have to be stuck as a business person your whole life. And if we give each other permission to do that, we don't turn around and look at a person who makes a change in their life, let's say their career or their relationships or their physical well being are where they live and say, Oh, my God, that person is so you know, fill in the blank. And when it may, in fact be that they're actually enhancing the artistry of who they are and serving humanity in that way.


Dia Bondi  33:31

So where does someone I mean, of course, we can go to Silva street calm and find out more about the substrate practice and, you know, enroll in some of your courses. I know, you host retreats, and like there's opportunities to engage with self Astraea folks are curious, and we'll put, we'll put that in the show notes. But as someone who might be listening to this podcast right now, driving home from wherever they were last wherever they're going next, where do they start? If they want to expand the stage and invite more of their selves?


Sarah Marshank  34:06

So the cool thing about being human, one of the cool things, is we're all unique. Even though we have a lot of similarities, we're all unique. And so I can't answer that question as a general, because the doorway into the kind of integration I'm talking about will be different for everyone. And, and many of us out and your listeners have done so much work on themselves already, whether it's, you know, they have a yoga practice, or they're doing leadership trainings, or they're, you know, all of this all everything that you do to self develop falls in one of the realms, right? So one person may need a little more work on the witness, right? Whereas I've worked with people who've been meditators for a long time and their self realm is a mess, you know, and then there are other people who feel so brokenhearted about their relationship with the divine by whatever name, but that's actually their entry. So I would invite the listeners to just like, maybe get quiet for a moment and feel into those three realms as I, as we've described them here and just notice in your body, and in your mind where you drawn, start there, call me, I'll help you sort it out.


Dia Bondi  35:20

I think that was an answer, baby. She said, I can't give you an answer. And then she gave us an answer.


Arthur  35:24

Sometimes you just start talking, and then you end up giving an answer, you know, it's right. It just comes from nowhere from the Yeah, I'm just gonna start talking. And eventually I'll make my point. Yeah, that's how I do a lot of things


Dia Bondi  35:35

that I wish I knew you would, I knew you'd have an answer. That's why I asked it. And, but I love that, because looking for that, for the way in may not be the same for each of us. And I would say, for me, the witness is a really important part of let making room for my other cells, selves. And I'll say that, it's hard for me to stay in witness. Because I'm a do we're, you know, I want to pick up a, an axe, and I wanna start chopping the tree down, I got to do stuff, we're doing stuff, you know, I got to strap on my tool belt and get to work. And that is sometimes very much. Sometimes it's it can transform into into witness, because it's sort of, you know, that's what, you know, my fitness routines are for, they're a place of witness, actually, I get to step into movement every day and ask, and I'm when I step into that space, it's almost like, let me see what's here. Let me let me let me like, step into a container where I'm doing something, but I'm not actually doing anything nice. And that's my place of witness that lets me stay embodied. But stay, but not in but not invested in my personality, or any one of my personality, personalities, you know, or aspects of my personality at that moment. Because it's not, it's just being in my body and noticing, who's showing up.


Sarah Marshank  37:06

Yeah, beautiful. The great example of it and the being doing polarity. There's another one right? There is a good one. So what happens when we just be and then it's not even in the being there's some doing it's like the Yin Yang, there's a little Yin in the Yang, and there's a lily I was like, you know, when you're being it's like you're witnessing that's a doing right, and you're tracking and you're so and even when you're doing, there's always a part of you. And I think that's the thing by 10 years on the cushion, the the the the grace of having that time in my life. And trust me, that's a lot of doing to sit all day to do yoga to do pranayama too fast to be silent. That's some doing shit right there. You know, it's doing the not doing right. So trust me, it was, it was intense, and a build up capacity in me to just be. And I'm super grateful for that. Because I feel it always I know I've access to it. And I know that when when life gets weird, or I get scared or triggered, I can pause and trust that the clarity will come of what I need to do or say next


Dia Bondi  38:12

from stepping into the witness space. Yep.


Sarah Marshank  38:15

And listening to myself, what's happening, why you triggered what's going on? Who's here? What's the, you know, because it can get really crazy and, and, and loud at times. So I know I can always just say timeout.


Dia Bondi  38:27

And is that before we wrap today is that a little bit about about how we can deal with the complexities in our in our lives and and the pathways to our goals are to step into the witness. And to let the noise calm down a little bit so that we become more resourceful in the moment. And then we'll know what to do when the moment requires some doing


Sarah Marshank  38:51

exactly. Take time to pause. It's worth it. I mean, 2020 was a huge pause for us and those of us were able to really use it as such super uncomfortable for us to doers in the West initially to pause we feel like it's a waste of time. And what you're saying is actually when we take that time, it really accelerates and feeds the quality of our doing 100%. Sarah, what can folks do with you, they can go to self ustream.com and find out everything I run programs online. I have an online community. I have a retreat in Mexico in April that hopefully we'll be able to actually make in 2022 and and I do private mentoring, which is really one of my favorite things to do because I can really get in there with people and the nuances and the specifics of their selfhood.


Dia Bondi  39:44

Can you name one set of yourselves that might be polar to one another.


Sarah Marshank  39:53

Yeah, I would say that I am a joyful melancholic And what you like about that is, is that I can totally get into just being slow and inward and kind of like gray sky foggy day and find absolute joy in that rather than any kind of anything wrong or broken.


Dia Bondi  40:19

Sarah, it's been lovely. Thank you for coming to the Deobandi show.


Sarah Marshank  40:22

Thanks, DIA. It's been a pleasure


Dia Bondi  40:31

so I told you it was gonna be Whoo.


Arthur  40:34

Well, you know, there's Whoo. And then there's woo woo, you know, and there's lots of ways to talk about these things using different types of language. But like, I'm, I'm like, the least woo person ever. And I was super into all the stuff she was talking about. And it's super grounded in contemplative philosophy and, you know, secular Buddhism and neuroscience and stuff. I'm super into that stuff.


Dia Bondi  40:57

Yeah, I have done self destruct practice. I did a half day retreat with her once and a few other circles. And it's a it's a, it's a trip, I did one with her that was sort of movement focused. Yeah, where you're stepping into those, those three realms. And boy, it is hard for me to not be like strategizing and like, Okay, now I'm going to use this part of myself and move like, this is the way like, I'm, you know, I'm really, it's like I'm heavy handed with, even, you know, it takes a lot for me to back off and sort of let other selves show up and then be a little bit not so heavy handed with what to do with it, you know, because I am such a doer. So that witness space is really important. For me, and I, you know, Sarah's I hope folks listening, you know, can feel that. Well, she is, you know, operating in some in some spaces that are that are Whoo, she's she's super pragmatic about stuff, too.


Arthur  41:57

Yeah. Yeah, I'm really interested in it. And when we got off air, I was telling her how I've read a lot of stuff about, you know, all this stuff. I just, I have never really developed an actual, like, mindfulness or meditation practice, but it's like, it's on my list.


Dia Bondi  42:13

Yeah. Yeah. All right, everybody, listen, I hope you got something today that gave you something to think about. And maybe you're articulating your own polarity or your own contradictions or you're noticing different selves wanting some stage time in your life. And our invitation is for you to investigate that and let them have a little stage time and let them help you get to where you need to go. Next.



This podcast is a production of Dia Bondi communications scored mixed and produced by Baby A, you can like share rate, and subscribe at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. If you would like my mom, D Bondi to answer any questions about how to make your next big move, call us and leave your question at 341-333-2997 Thanks for listening.

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